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Episode : #761: Dental Marketing Is Not One-Size-Fits-All

Podcast Description

Kiera is joined by Josh Scott of Studio EightyEight to talk about marketing and the development of dental practices. Practices often underestimate the power of marketing budgets over the long term, and Josh gives advice on how not to fall short. He touches on:

  • Vetting marketing company options

  • Asking the right questions

  • Knowing when it is time to pull the plug on someone

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Transcript

Kiera Dent (00:00.765)

Hello, Denali team listeners, this is Kira and oh, I’ve got my favorite guest back on the podcast. I can’t really say favorite, like that’s like a parent admitting that they have favorite children, but this really is one of my faves. Josh Scott with Studio 88, he’s like a brother to me in the industry. I feel like we’ve grown up as kids in the industry. Studio 88 is just an incredible company. Josh, I haven’t told you this, but you guys are a company that we, as a company model after. I’m just super impressed with who you guys are, with what you deliver for clients. Your background’s always on point.

 

Joshua Scott (00:09.995)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (00:30.743)

And just who you are as humans are really impressive. So Josh, welcome back to the show. How are you?

 

Joshua Scott (00:35.226)

Oh, thanks. I saw this on my calendar this week. I was super excited about it. Look, I mean, you, you and I, like we had these conversations where it’s like we’re growing. Yeah. It’s almost like growing up together running businesses. Sometimes you’re texting me like, what’d you do for this? And sometimes I’m like, what are you doing for this? Uh, cause so much of business ownership is just like figuring it out as you go. Uh, so it’s, yeah, it’s, we’re all growing up.

 

Kiera Dent (00:44.533)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (00:49.609)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (00:57.029)

We are. I do feel that way because I mean, you go back to when we very first met and we were two kids playing business. Like you guys were, I think, quite a bit further ahead than I was. So maybe I’ll rephrase that. I was a kid playing business when I met you. And so I just appreciate you. You’ve been a mentor to me. I feel like we are siblings in the industry together and it’s just been fun to watch you guys grow and evolve. It’s been fun to evolve with you.

 

And so I’m super excited because I feel like marketing and what we wanted to talk about today is so true to, I think the development of dental practices too, where we start out young and we’ve got these ideas and then you mature through business and then you really start to hit your prime. And I mentioned to you pre-show, I feel like Studio 88 is hitting their prime. Like you guys are in this prime zone where you’ve got predictability, you’ve got your rhythm, you know your niche.

 

and you just really have honed in on that. So I’m super excited to talk to you, Josh. If you guys don’t know Studio 88, I’m obsessed with them. They have done so many things for me. They’ve helped me rebrand many times. They’ve helped me with website. Josh helps me every time we speak together. Maybe that’s why we only speak once a year together now, Josh. I don’t know if that’s a subtle sign I should take, but Josh makes sure I look good every time I speak with him. But yeah, I just think it’s fun. So Josh, let’s talk about Studio 88 today and some of the things that I feel really are.

 

mirroring what dental practices do as they evolve as practices as well.

 

Joshua Scott (02:21.866)

Yeah, yeah. No, it’s so fun to be here. I mean, I can go off on three or four of those conversations for sure. But I know. But I think what you just said, it’s funny because I get these comments like

 

Kiera Dent (02:28.971)

I team up for you.

 

Joshua Scott (02:38.07)

you know, gosh, it just looks like you guys are everywhere. It looks like you’re doing amazing. It looks like you’re doing everything. And the fact is like, we’re finishing up, this is our 10th year right now, like coming up on December, we were finishing 10 full years. And so sometimes that success, like people look at that and they think like, oh, you’re everywhere. And I’m like, yeah, it only took 10 years to be everywhere though. And some of that, if I was just gonna kind of, you know, point out the first thing here today is I think we underestimate

 

Kiera Dent (02:46.691)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (02:57.961)

Right.

 

Joshua Scott (03:06.85)

the power of marketing budgets over the long term. And so what I mean by that is oftentimes we get into marketing and maybe we think it’s not working. So three to six months later, we switched gears and we just kind of like, and then maybe we grow. So we kind of back off of it because we don’t need it, but then we need an associate, we hire an associate. So we, you know, push the gas out and marketing, it becomes this like disjointed. It’s almost like energy just going in all these different ways.

 

Kiera Dent (03:11.3)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (03:32.626)

And when you do that, it’s really tough to make progress and gain momentum with the marketing. You know, to tell you the truth, like we’re sitting here this year, we will literally like, this is not an inflated number. Uh, we will spend half a million on marketing this year or more. And so when people are like, you look like you’re everywhere. I’m like, well, good, because there was a lot of investment into that. And it’s not just the half million this year. It was the 400,000 last year, the 350 before that, the 250.

 

Kiera Dent (03:53.336)

Hahaha

 

Kiera Dent (04:00.073)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (04:01.95)

So, you know, at this point you’re looking at a 10 year company that has probably put 3 million in marketing in the last 10 years. So that was the plan, right? That was the plan to get here. And people are like, you look like you’re everywhere. You look like you guys blew up. And I’m like, good, that’s what we tried to do. Some of it’s just the discipline of, do we need the market? I don’t know. That’s the way. Not the question. The question is we’re going to have a budget and we’re going to spend it. And we’re going to make the best use of that, knowing that it’s going to create so much momentum at some point that we’re like, okay, this is amazing.

 

Kiera Dent (04:30.425)

Yeah. Well, and I think that that’s beautiful because I, so many times in business, like you talk to dental practices and they see seasoned dental offices or, um, we just did a think tank in our company with our, our platinum, uh, doctors. And one of the doctors is a younger doctor, but it’s a discipline, dedication, and focus that really does separate. I feel like the ordinary from the extraordinary. And so to hear what you guys are doing 10 years in the making, we don’t like to hear about

 

It was a 10 year journey to get here because it feels like it was an overnight success. And they say people are rewarded in publicly for what they do in private for years. And you guys were doing this, like it’s head down, hunkering down, doing it. Something I think I just took away as like a gem, which I take every time is like, Josh, I take notes on your podcast. Every time we podcast together, I’m writing down notes, which is good, because I don’t usually take notes. Sorry, everyone else, I just, you know, listen, but.

 

it’s we have the budget and we’re going to spend it whether we need it or not because we know it’s going to keep propelling us forward. And I think so many practices don’t do that. It’s like, well, we’ve got the marketing. We’re there. We’ve got our patient. But I don’t know, like nothing in life, like it’s either growing or it’s dying. So why would we shut off the water if unless we want our practice to die? So I’m excited to hear you. I know you guys are doing a different thing in Studio 88. You guys are trying different ways like based on the lifestyle of where the practice is at now. So kind of walk me through what you guys are doing.

 

Joshua Scott (05:46.455)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (05:57.117)

because I feel like marketing is not a one size fits all. Just like I don’t think consulting’s a one size fits all. I don’t think every practice is a one size fits all, which is something I love that you guys have pivoted into because I think it allows you to reach more practices, do things a little bit differently, which I’m excited that you guys have pivoted this way over the years of watching you.

 

Joshua Scott (06:16.426)

Yeah, yeah. This last, um, you know, I would say, let me just kind of back up for some context here. I would say if our competitors were trying to take a shot at us, um, which, and they would, they would, some of them would literally tell me this to my face. Um, they would say, Oh, studio 88, beautiful websites. They’re not going to score. Well, they don’t do digital ads. Well, the SEO is not going to connect with Google and

 

while some of there was some maybe merit to that, like look early on when we built this, we leverage the creative so far, because I felt like that’s really what dentistry needed. Um, there were some good SEO people, some good ad people out there. There was nobody doing good creative. And so we kind of went the other way of like, well, let’s do that really, really well and get attention. But you know, this as a business owner, like you can only grow, like you can only focus on so many things at once. Like you have to just kind of grow a little bit out of time and add this and add that.

 

Kiera Dent (06:46.747)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (07:04.917)

Totally.

 

Joshua Scott (07:08.734)

And so one of the things I’m most excited about is over the last 18 months, we’ve really, we’ve hired some amazing SEO experts, some amazing digital ad, uh, strategists, social media, uh, consultants on the team, because we really wanted to dental practices to have what we call the best of both worlds, a story driven website, along with performance marketing. And up until this point, like

 

You really haven’t been able to do that. It’s really been a trade off. Most dental practices, that’s the main question when it comes down to choosing your marketing agency or choosing your marketing strategy. Are we gonna do something that’s story based, that’s psychology driven, that’s gonna connect with patients on an emotional level? Or are we gonna connect with Google and get great SEO? And there was a trade off there. And we just began to ask that question a couple years ago, like, do you have to do that?

 

Kiera Dent (07:53.381)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (07:58.934)

Can we actually add that in? And so we invested in a team that came in. They started actually working with practices just for free on some of these services, like, Hey, can we do this? Started getting really great data back that proved our, our kind of thesis, which was, I think you can. And so, you know, I think we’re really, it’s like, I say it like this for the first time in dental marketing, which sounds a little pretentious, but I think it’s, it’s really true of like, you don’t have to choose, we can actually create

 

Kiera Dent (08:16.619)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (08:21.535)

No.

 

Joshua Scott (08:28.982)

a psychologically driven web experience that a patient, a human can connect to while at the same time, connecting with Google and meeting their needs from an SEO standpoint and digital ad conversion rate. So that’s kind of been one of the big things for us this year. That’s been a lot of fun to be a part of.

 

Kiera Dent (08:42.192)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (08:49.773)

amazing. And I think as you said that Josh, one thing again, like I’m pulling my little pearls on my nuggets is you asked different and better questions. And I know you hear this often, but it’s like in your practices, in your business, asking those better questions, like, could we have this instead of taking that as fact? What if that was the case? What if we could do something differently? Because I believe like when we can look that way and we can dream that way, that’s when it becomes real.

 

And so I do love that. And Josh, full transparency, I used to say similar things. I’m like, Studio 88, I’m going for them for brand and I’m going for them for design. If you wanna look like a million bucks, hire Studio 88. They have the best, most gorgeous, like, Josh, if I look back through my social feed, I can always tell the photos you guys took of me versus other photographers. And while I love other photographers, you guys really do stand out on that creative. And so to hear and to see the data and to see clients you’ve worked with really bring those two together.

 

I think is amazing because it does feel like you get as a girl, women, can we relate? We have the really sexy shoes that are so amazing, but they’re not comfortable. Like, is this trade off? Like if it’s comfortable, then it’s not hot enough. If it’s, if it’s beautiful, it’s not going to convert. And so having it to wear and if it’s going to convert, it’s ugly. Like, I feel like those were the two extremes, like beautiful and doesn’t convert ugly and does convert. And I’m like, wow, well, I don’t really like either option. So like, which is the lesser of the two evils. So to hear that it can be beautiful.

 

Joshua Scott (10:08.674)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (10:14.815)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (10:16.269)

and convert is a really awesome thing that you guys are doing. So what are you finding that practices need to do to be able to get that like aesthetically telling my story? But then also being able to convert because I think marketing, you know, Josh, you and your friends like genuinely, I adore you and Joanna. You guys are welcome at my house anytime. Like I feel like you’re my family. Um, but I also feel like marketers are total scams and it bothers me in dentistry. And yet I love and know that you guys are not that way. So kind of walk us through

 

Joshua Scott (10:40.068)

Thank you.

 

Kiera Dent (10:45.353)

How can practices know, like what can they look for in an agency if they’re going to hire someone to not get burned, to not get scammed because it just makes me angry, which is why you’re on the podcast because you’re not that person. So go ahead, share all your wisdom. So, go ahead, share all your wisdom.

 

Joshua Scott (10:56.29)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (11:01.002)

No, I just, it’s so funny because I had a call last week and I honestly don’t jump on a lot of sales calls anymore, but this had come from a friend and he was like, hey, startup doc, can you talk to him? We just need some advice. He’s not happy with his marketing agency. And I’m like, yeah. So I jumped on this call and the doctor was just, you could just tell he was like, yeah, I’m just looking to switch agencies. Just want to see what you have to offer. I’m like, great. Tell me about your startup, eight months in.

 

Great. What did new patients look like? And it was almost like he didn’t, I was like, you called me, like you wanted to do this, this call. And he just like, wasn’t talking at all. And he was almost like mad that he had to be there. It was kind of like that vibe. And I was joking with Mike, our sales director, cause we know that profile there. They think marketing companies are, it’s a scam. They don’t want to be dealing with them. They feel like they’re picking like the lesser of all evil, you know, like the lesser two evils, like whatever. And I, and I hate that our space has become like that. I really do. And so.

 

Kiera Dent (11:44.35)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (11:54.27)

I think, you know, for us, one of the, the uniques that I just mentioned was the best of both worlds. The other one that we feel like makes us different is we’ve really tried to create what we call the last agency that you’ll ever need. And the reason that is most dental practices is kind of my anecdotal, like observation. Most dental practices will switch marketing companies three times within a 10 year period.

 

Kiera Dent (12:07.056)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (12:20.656)

easily.

 

Joshua Scott (12:20.786)

And I think that’s on average, but I think that’s like conservative too, because I know some that…

 

Kiera Dent (12:24.945)

I was gonna say, it’s like three times in a year sometimes. This isn’t working. Well, cause most of the time, here’s the pitch. The marketing people are like, it’s gonna take us three months for you to see results and we need to change your website. Like honestly, if marketers just wanna get a little creative and not give me the same pitch every time, I would know you’ve at least done something different. But that’s what it is. We gotta swap up your website. You’re not gonna see anything till the website’s done. And then three months after that, for us to even know if this is working.

 

Joshua Scott (12:27.975)

Okay, I’m being generous.

 

Kiera Dent (12:50.545)

and then we can go from there. So then after three months, if it’s not working, you switch and then you go get another website, another plan, you might last for six months. So I would actually say that’s hyper conservative unless they just don’t wanna change and they don’t wanna deal with the fact. But like the people who aren’t changing are the ones who are just getting organic traffic, so therefore they think their marketing’s working.

 

Joshua Scott (12:57.473)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (13:08.778)

Yeah. No, I agree with you. I probably try to be a little bit more realistic because I so we switch marketing companies a lot. And again, it’s that whole budget conversation of when you start, stop, change energy, you’re not allowing momentum to generate. It’s not good for your business. In fact, to run a business like that, the marketing division, which is one of the main drivers of a business’s growth, to run it like that is bananas, like it really is. And so

 

for us is like, well, how can we build something that actually grows with our clients that adjust to the seasons of their practices? Like, Hey, you know, we’re adding an associate. Great. Like we already have the branding set. We can do this and this and, and really begin to grow that. Um, you know, our account managers at this point in the company, I’ve never lost 10 years. I’ve never lost an account manager. Like finger, fingers crossed. I know it’s going to happen. Like it, it will, but at the same time, like,

 

Kiera Dent (13:59.477)

That’s awesome. It’s amazing. Sure.

 

Joshua Scott (14:05.214)

We don’t overburden them. We really try to care for just their mental health and professional fulfillment and quality of life, and we pay them well too. And so things like that of, you’re not switching around from account managers, you’ve got somebody that knows you. The best situation is, yeah, you’re three, four, five years into this, you’ve got a marketing team that knows who you are.

 

Kiera Dent (14:15.412)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (14:26.794)

knows your preferences, like they know like, okay, we’re not gonna do a coupon for free whitening because you don’t like that. So instead let’s do take this direction versus the company that comes along and says, oh, let’s do a coupon for free whitening because we know we get all these new patients in. And yeah, you get new patients in, I just had this phone call today. They’re not a good fit for my practice. They just want everything cheap. And I’m like, yeah, because that’s what they did. So it’s a company that learns you, your values, a team that has longevity within the team.

 

Kiera Dent (14:32.628)

Right.

 

Kiera Dent (14:45.492)

Mm-hmm. Right.

 

Joshua Scott (14:55.918)

and can then serve you. My biggest piece of advice is not just interviewing the marketing company, but find some of their clients, interview them, have a conversation, will you talk to me about your experience, and just try to get as much work with people you trust and you like. So.

 

Kiera Dent (15:11.445)

Mm hmm. I agree. Okay, so we’ve got we can get gorgeous design and it can convert. Now we only have one marketing agency for our life. Josh, what happens if they meet you? Oh, this is actually cute. I didn’t mean this analogy, but it is going to be cute. What happens if it’s like they meet you right as a startup, but then we question like, kind of like dating and you meet your high school sweetheart. And then you always wonder like, is there someone better out there? Which is really ironic to tell you this analogy. I don’t know if you can relate to this, Josh, I can.

 

Joshua Scott (15:19.256)

Yep.

 

Kiera Dent (15:41.357)

Um, but like you always wonder, is there someone better out there? How do you, how do you combat that where they might have landed with the best marketing agent right now, but then not questioning, is there maybe someone better out there? I mean, things are going good, but is there someone better out?

 

Joshua Scott (15:55.262)

Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. And with startups, you kind of, I think it goes both ways. I think you could be in a average subaverage relationship with an agency and you’re like, I think this is good. Um, and you can also be in a great one where you just have a higher expectations and you, you may realize the grass isn’t greener on the other side.

 

Kiera Dent (16:07.508)

right?

 

Kiera Dent (16:15.256)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (16:15.57)

So I think it goes both ways. Um, again, I think if you’re working, so some of these, it’s almost like the soft skills cure. It’s like, let’s put SEO aside. Let’s put digital ad, like CBC, like conversion rates and all this stuff aside. Are they listening to you? Are they hearing you? Do they understand the type of practice you’re running? Are they responsive in their changes? Are you getting stuck into their strategy? And it’s like, you hear stuff and they’re like, yeah, that’s great. But, but they weren’t, they’re keeping you in this lane.

 

Kiera Dent (16:43.609)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (16:45.466)

Or is it, are they willing to adjust that based on you and understanding your expectations and managing those. And I think if they’re doing those things, like if you say, Hey, I’d like to get on the zoom call. Great. And they hear you and they’re willing to adjust strategy and also go, Hey, this may or may not work. And here’s why. And in our expertise, this might not be a good decision because here’s what we’re seeing. And you can hear that. I think those are probably better judgment points than just, I think I can get better SEO.

 

I’m like, okay, like, what does that mean? Because it’s already a very subjective space.

 

Kiera Dent (17:14.055)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (17:19.497)

Sure, no, I think that’s a good point. And I don’t know, I think it’s like consulting. I think it’s like a mechanic. It’s like a dentist. How do you actually know if your work is good? I don’t. Patients literally do not know if your MOD that you just filled is perfect drop margins. And if you have perfect contour, like we don’t know that. We hope and pray that you’re good at what you do as a dentist. And I think it’s the same thing as do I hope and pray that my marketers are great at what they do.

 

Joshua Scott (17:30.443)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (17:47.389)

I think educate yourself for sure. I’m very pro with marketing, like have them show you the stats, just like with your patients, like show them the x-rays, show them the great work you’re doing. But at the end of the day, I also think it’s trust. And what I tell so many practices is like, if they like you and they love you and they trust you, they’re going to stay with you. And I think that’s the same with marketing, but so often it is results driven, it is this. And so Josh, how do you guys show your stats? Like, how do you show a practice the value of the marketing

 

I can like you all day long, just like I tell people, like your lab guys and your supply guys, they’re not your friends. Like they work for you, your marketing agency works for you. How can you show them your guys’ value and credibility with stats as well? Because I think like, I love you guys already, but I also wanna make sure that my money is getting an ROI from that. How do they vet that and see that?

 

Joshua Scott (18:23.997)

Right.

 

Joshua Scott (18:36.178)

Yeah, for sure. When you jump into our programs, our new programs now, whether it’s specifically SEO and digital ads, those are the two most data analytical driven strategies out there. We’ve over the last year, we’ve collected a lot of data around those of just like what our average clients do. Because I think it’s really easy. This was a question we had to answer, because it’s really easy to throw out

 

a really good success case. Oh, you can get, you know, whatever, um, you know, we can get leads for $7 and 81 cents and with a, you know, 34% click through rate and all, and these numbers that are kind of like, wow, that’s impressive. Um, we have those cases, but it’s that doesn’t help anybody’s expectations moving into what an ad campaign should look like. And so we, uh,

 

Kiera Dent (19:03.166)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (19:24.373)

Sure.

 

Joshua Scott (19:28.074)

pulled data from basically our client base over the last year and began to develop averages and then put those averages up to dental industry averages and then just like healthcare averages as well. And we beat all those. I mean, I think our click through rate is like three times what the dental industry is getting.

 

Now you could say like, well, what does that compare to? And it’s like, well, what a normal, like what dental practices are reporting and what they’re saying they’re getting. Our SEO is, I think this one’s harder to quantify for sure. I’m trying to get my guys, I’m actually pushing a little bit on that. Like, can we get some numbers here? But you know, if I said it’s eight times better than what most people are doing on SEO, I don’t think that would be a stretch.

 

Kiera Dent (19:59.601)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (20:10.77)

Um, so we, we are able to share some data and some points like that with our, our clients at the same time. I’m also, you know, it’s like with the Google ad campaign, you spend 1500 bucks. I think you’re probably going to get 30 phone calls.

 

Kiera Dent (20:11.215)

awesome.

 

Joshua Scott (20:26.066)

You’re not going to convert all those. My goal would be you convert eight of those. That’s about $175 acquisition for a new patient. That’s really, really good. The other piece of that is just think about in that first year, if your average patients are spending $1,000, that’s even better.

 

Kiera Dent (20:27.733)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (20:44.65)

lifetime ROI of a patient, if that patient stays the next 10 years and they produce 6,500, that is a fantastic situation to be in. So even if Google was 250, 300 bucks per new patient, like we’re still winning like every day on the situation. So I think there’s numbers, but then there’s managing expectations as well.

 

Kiera Dent (20:44.862)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (21:00.665)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (21:07.281)

And that’s something I think you guys do really well. I’m so happy to hear you say like, 1,530 new patients and you’re not going to convert all of them, let’s aim for like at least eight. I don’t know if the listeners felt this way, but I was like, wow, Josh, sell yourself short. But I love that it was so honest because like when I interview treatment coordinators, or I interview different people for sales, and they’re like, yep, I have 100% close rate. And I’m like, you’re lying. Or you don’t track your stats because.

 

Joshua Scott (21:32.824)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (21:33.581)

even your really, really best. Like I like that you guys shoot so realistic as opposed to over the top. Let’s promise you the moon. Frustration really only occurs when expectations are met or missed. And so if you guys can set better expectations, we do better than that. Like, do I think I could close eight of those 30 calls? I certainly hope so. But it doesn’t feel so outlandish that I have to be perfect to get those results either. And if I can be okay with those results,

 

Joshua Scott (21:53.549)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (21:58.839)

Right.

 

Kiera Dent (22:00.893)

then I’m going to be in a really great space. And so I think it’s a beautiful way that you guys really do manage expectations and you’re not over promising and you’re not under delivering. And I think that that’s probably why you have such happy clients and you have such a happy team because I think that that’s the culture of studio 88, like what’s real and what can we actually know we can deliver on consistently for you. And then we’re going to hopefully go above that, but at least we’ve got a good baseline that you’re comfortable with, we’re comfortable with, and let’s rock and roll and see what we see from there.

 

Joshua Scott (22:29.726)

Yeah, and you know, because a lot of companies, they’ll approach that as like, you know, oh my gosh, we’re gonna get you 30 phone calls. And it implies that we’re going to get you 30 new patients. And the fact is that’s just not true. And dental practices don’t, don’t convert that. First off, statistically, we know 40% of those are going to go to voicemail. So like number one is, I’m like, you get, I, I know, and you know this, I know it’s like it.

 

Kiera Dent (22:40.614)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (22:46.289)

Totally, which makes me cringe. Oh.

 

Joshua Scott (22:52.422)

It’s one of those like wonders of the world where I’m like, why, if you’re paying money for marketing, why are patients going to voicemail? Like fix that because I think that that’s the best shot of that eight going to 12 is capturing those voicemail. And then there’s going to be probably a third 25 to 30% that are an insurance mismatch, price shopping, calling the wrong office, which just happens because people don’t pay attention. They’re just, they just click stuff and they’re like, I thought I was calling this other practice. So

 

Kiera Dent (22:56.764)

I agree.

 

Kiera Dent (23:02.55)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (23:15.166)

Right.

 

Kiera Dent (23:19.106)

They just click stuff. How does that like Amazon shopping work? We just click stuff.

 

Joshua Scott (23:20.878)

I do. It’s crazy. So actual, just click stuff. actual qualified, potential new patients, you know, you probably got, you’re probably down the half of those. And out of that, yeah, I mean, some are just not going to be a good fit for you. Some of them you can increase your closing skills on the phone. But we have a practice this year. That’s been fun. It was he hit 12. So it’s a startup in the Columbus area.

 

Kiera Dent (23:34.004)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (23:49.982)

It’s his third startup, but he wanted to go from zero to $3 million in year one. So it’s an 18 op practice. Um, he was with another marketing agency, but came over to us for this one. So we started with the brand web development, all that. Um, he spends so month. So at the 12 month mark, he hit, I want to say it’s like 3.1, almost 3.2 million. So he hit the goal. I’m actually interviewing him tomorrow. We’re, we’re going to build a whole resource around this. It’s going to be a ton of fun. Um,

 

Kiera Dent (23:54.706)

Amazing.

 

Kiera Dent (24:11.909)

Awesome.

 

Kiera Dent (24:18.069)

It’s awesome.

 

Joshua Scott (24:19.17)

But one of the big keys there, there’s actually a lot of keys that make that happen, but one of them is he spends right now, it’s about 48,000 a month on digital ads.

 

Kiera Dent (24:28.853)

You said 48,000, not 4,800. That’s impressive. It’s impressive.

 

Joshua Scott (24:31.406)

48,000, 48,000 a month. Yeah, so like, you know, $600,000 a year digital ad investment. And he has his MBA as well. He’s a dentist, practicing dentist, has his MBA. But part of it is that game of Google’s an algorithm. It’s a formula. And if we look at, oh my gosh, I’m giving you 1500 a month and you better like get 30 patients in the door for me.

 

Kiera Dent (24:47.123)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (24:52.309)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (24:58.734)

Nobody wins from that. That is unrealistic. It’s not going to happen. But if you can go, Hey, we’re getting eight. So these costs $175 a piece. And then you go, I need 140 a month, which is what he was doing. Well, so now scale that up and it tells you how much you have to spend. Most people, the differences, most people freak out at that number. He had the guts to go, if I spent, if I invest 600,000, but it gets me to 3.2, is that a good deal?

 

Kiera Dent (25:00.217)

Right.

 

Kiera Dent (25:13.34)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (25:18.409)

Totally.

 

Joshua Scott (25:27.358)

And in his situation, that’s what he wanted to do. So.

 

Kiera Dent (25:27.813)

Yeah. Which I think is so awesome. I have a friend and he and I talk about this a lot and he’s like, Kira, um, spending the money, we’ll get you the results. But I think it’s that, I think there’s the buyer sphere, Josh of is this person really going to get me the results? Or am I just like, I mean, we all have our stories. I have mine. I did 80,000. So I’m like, let’s go like guns a blazing. I didn’t know my cost per acquisition. So that was my first mistake, which if I was doing this again, I would definitely know that number.

 

but I did 80,000 in six weeks with zero ROI. And like literally no phone calls, no nothing like, and I was like, I put the money in, I spent the money, I wasn’t afraid to do it. Like I almost went under spending that much money because I thought this marketing company, I trust the person that they came from. And so I think it’s more, how do you avoid that? I mean, obviously hire you guys because we’ve got testimonials and proof, but I think that that’s the fear of like.

 

Joshua Scott (26:11.864)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (26:23.945)

People are willing to spend the money, but there’s so much quote unquote scam in marketing that like we’re willing to spend the money, but then you don’t see the results. So I guess how long do you go before you pivot?

 

Joshua Scott (26:23.981)

Yeah.

 

Joshua Scott (26:35.038)

That’s a really, really good question. Um, and I don’t, yeah, that that’s so good because Kira that like reframes it so much of the time I’m on this other side and I probably, it’s, it’s a very empathetic question of putting myself in their position and that’s true. Like that’s the reason you changed companies so much is cause like you’re, you’re pulling the plug, like this is not the direction I want to go. So why would I put more money into it? And so the question becomes like finding either an agency or strategies that you feel really good about.

 

Kiera Dent (26:55.439)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (27:04.43)

You know, like from our perspective right now, I know going in the next year, there are places we can invest more that are absolutely going to get us at return because it’s just proven that I also know there’s some experimental places we’re talking about where we don’t know. So we’re going to manage that budget, right? And go what’s, what’s a good amount to get us what we think we should get, but it’s also high enough to like test it, you know, where we get to the end of it, it’s not like, well, we didn’t spend enough.

 

Kiera Dent (27:13.343)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (27:27.774)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (27:30.546)

So I think it’s, it’s yeah, that’s tough. And I would say if you’re not connecting with your marketing agency on a professional level, it’s probably quicker to pull that plug sooner rather than later, um, at the same time, it’s like, yeah, marketing needs, uh, it needs three, six, 12 months to really start seeing some of that results with us. A lot of times I tell clients.

 

I think year one, you’re going to love what we do. Like you’re going to look at it and go, Oh my gosh, I think the website’s amazing. The photography, the videos, the team loves that we’re getting compliments on it. Um, like I think it’s working. It’s kind of like that, that deal. Second year is like, Oh yeah, we’re seeing new patients go up. Uh, we’re getting more reviews. People are mentioning, you know, this and that, like we can tell it’s definitely working. Year three. We’ve got so much momentum now. Like we just feel it everywhere. The community knows who we are. Like we’re just growing a ton.

 

Kiera Dent (28:06.482)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (28:24.286)

And so I think that perspective though is, is playing the long game and allowing the marketing to work. Like we need that. And that’s probably why making those decisions short term is so difficult to know.

 

Kiera Dent (28:28.957)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (28:36.833)

Right. So I think it’s more have your budget, know where you’re going, vet people. Like that’s why I bring Studio 88 on because I was that person who got burned. I spent $80,000 in six months. It was, I felt like I’m going for it. Like they all say, you’ve just got to jump in. And I thought I vetted people really well. And then

 

realized that maybe that wasn’t the best decision. And I was like, I’m going to go under with the amount of money that we’re shelling into this. Like I had not planned. They told me it was 15,000. And then we’re clear up to 80,000. So that was quite the span for me. But I think that that’s why I bring you on because I feel you guys do have the results. You do have the gorgeous websites. You do have the design and the aesthetics to it that I just, I mean, not everybody has that. So Josh, I love that you guys have so many different pieces to your marketing that you

 

empathize with the client, that you understand dentistry, that you guys are everywhere, that you’ve played the long game of 10 years, that you guys have done your own marketing, $500,000 into marketing. Like that’s proof in the pudding of what you guys are doing as well, that you don’t just sell and promote marketing, but you actually do it yourselves and that you see the needs and that you ask the better questions so you really can serve the dental community.

 

So Josh, I love you guys. I adore you guys. Is there anything else that you feel like listeners should know? I feel like we went through so many pieces of when do you pull the plug? How do you vet these marketing teams? What do you really need for this? Is there anything else you feel like they should know when it comes to marketing?

 

Joshua Scott (30:04.722)

I think this episode has been fun because it’s really been about, it’s almost like choosing, like how to choose an agency and some of those, you know, hopefully you kind of just pull in the curtain back a little bit, like here’s some things going on internally that you should be looking for and asking. I think, you know, one of the things that we do that is to me, it’s not a selling, it is a selling point. It’s something that makes us different, but like we cap our new clients every month.

 

Kiera Dent (30:29.073)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (30:29.202)

So we only take on eight new clients as of right now, every month. So we’re recording this in November. November has been done. We’re actually December is like halfway done. So there’s a little bit, this is probably a 30 day ish wait, you know, to, to work with us. One of the reasons I decided to do that was because you know, this we, we see these dental companies on the come up.

 

Kiera Dent (30:42.428)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (30:53.426)

And everybody starts raving about them and how amazing they are. And they start growing real fast. And then next thing we know, everybody’s like, the customer service sucks. Nobody’s responding to me. I can’t get what I like. I don’t even know what I’m paying for anymore. Like the product is, and that happens like all the time. And

 

Kiera Dent (30:56.156)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

 

Kiera Dent (31:02.357)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (31:11.558)

Right.

 

Joshua Scott (31:12.482)

I decided we were not going to be that company. And so dealing with a creative team, like if we have a month was like, Oh my gosh, we got 18 new clients on a sales side, ownership side. We’re like, yes, this is amazing. On the creative side, they’re like, Oh my God, what am I going to do? And so we, and even the customer service that our account managers can give, like everybody only has so much time and we don’t want to turn out product and service on a production line. We want every client to get the best creative and the best service possible.

 

Kiera Dent (31:22.458)

Hahaha

 

Kiera Dent (31:26.167)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (31:40.678)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (31:41.394)

And so I say that to go even questions like that of how many clients did do you guys take on a month? Um, how do you make sure that you provide the same level of creative and customer service on each client? How do you manage, like, how do you navigate busy months when you guys have a lot of new clients sign up? There are things like that where it gives you an inside look into the agency. Um, but when owners can come out and say like, this is what we do. Like I’m.

 

Kiera Dent (31:48.318)

Mm-hmm.

 

Joshua Scott (32:08.422)

I’m leaving money on the table for next month in a sense because of this decision. And, but like that’s it, but it’s what’s best for our clients. And so, um, that’s what’s going to make us stay around for a long time versus just getting as much money as we can this month.

 

Kiera Dent (32:11.637)

Totally, you are. Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (32:25.309)

Well, I think that to me, as you said it, I feel like that is a legacy company as opposed to a flip company. And not to say that those who take on a lot and are in like rapid growth mode, but like when you’re in rapid growth mode, things do decline. Like I remember doing that and I was like, oh my gosh, like I am drowning over here. And it’s just, so as you said that to me, I’m like the perspective of this company is long-term. This perspective of this company is we’re here for it. We’re not trying to go public. We’re not trying to become this.

 

Joshua Scott (32:32.108)

Yeah.

 

Kiera Dent (32:53.373)

like massive company and you guys will like you’ll blossom into that. But that’s not the short term goal. The short term goal is high quality, long-term clients that we have for life. Like we want to be your last marketing agency. It’s a very different type of mindset and culture and company than what I think a lot of other people have. So mad kudos to you guys. Like, that’s why I said you guys are one of the companies I mimic and mirror. I definitely look to you guys as an example of a company with high standards, very high end. Like I trust you guys with my,

 

my company and our product as well. And I just am super appreciative of what you guys do. So Josh, thanks for being here today. Thanks for just changing marketing. If people are interested, if they wanna be one of the eight clients, like you said, every month it fills up. So I would definitely get in. End of year, it’s a good time right now. I’ll try and make sure Josh will get this released before end of year, because I know it’s a great tax advantage too. So Josh, how can they connect with you?

 

Joshua Scott (33:43.254)

Yeah. If you want to connect with me over at Instagram at Joshua Scott, I’m still in that account answering all my DMS. Tell me, you heard this episode and I’ll give you a shout out. And then, um, studio 88 is over at, uh, S eight eight.com. So the letter S number eight letter E number eight.com. Uh, you can just click a button to chat there and, um, yeah, we’ll help you out.

 

Kiera Dent (34:05.429)

That’s awesome. Josh, I appreciate you guys. That was such a fun episode. Thank you for making. I mean, I just I enjoyed my podcast with you. So thank you. I appreciate it.

 

Joshua Scott (34:13.406)

Oh my gosh, it’s so easy to talk to you. I mean, yeah, it’s fun to just have these conversations. You got me thinking about some stuff too. I wrote down, so I appreciate that.

 

Kiera Dent (34:21.465)

Like we said, we’re kids who run in business, but kids who were committed to high quality, high top end design, just like changing the delivery of customer service for Dennis. And I think you guys have done an incredible job. So as always guys, go check out Josh. I love Studio 88. They have done a lot of work for me and my team. I love them. I speak with them. I promote them. I endorse them personally.

 

I would trust Josh with my company and I have. So guys, go check him out. And as always, thank you for listening. I’ll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

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