Episode : #1,168: To Scale or Simplify, That is the Question.

Podcast Description

Ever feel like your office doesn’t fit the standard benchmarks for growth? In this episode, Kiera and Dana riff on how to know whether going big or tightening the screws is the best way forward for your practice — including specific questions to ask yourself so you can get started on change today.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today’s a lucky day. I get Dana on the podcast with me. Dana, she is Donuts with Dana. She’s been my ride or die for so freaking long. I love this woman so much. And fun fact, I didn’t quite prep her 100 % for this podcast and yet she still shows up for a podcast with me. So Dana, how you doing today?

DAT-Dana (00:20)

Doing pretty good. Listen, any podcast with you is a good time. So if I get time with Kiera, I’m showing up.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:25)

Well, I appreciate

it because selfishly I needed to throw a few podcasts in the morning before a coaching call day. And I was like, ⁓ doing them solo. I’d rather have a consultant. So I just looked across the calendars and was like, which consultants are free and like threw them on people’s calendars. And then Dana was like, I didn’t even know that this was a podcast. So, but Dana, I equally feel the same. Like if I can snag you for a podcast, like let’s roll girl. Let’s have a good time. Dana.

You’re Dainty to a point, but you’re also Dynamite Dana. And we just had a client who’s looking to work with you. And I told them like, Dana, you don’t take on new clients. Like it is a very rare season. Like you happen to have a few clients that just like you’ve grown them enough. They’re too new level that they’re not staying with us. They’ve been with you for freaking ever. And I was like, Dana has a very rare opening. And I remember this client was like, well, we want to meet Dana. And I was like,

hold please, I’m just gonna send you a bunch of podcasts and if you need more than that, you just let me know. So, and when I was looking through them, it was like, Dynamite Dana on the podcast. And I was like, I think that one just got to stick for me Dana. Like it’s the best one by far because you’re a dynamic, you’re dynamite and you just crush it for teams. So excited for today because today’s topic is scale or simplify. Like what should growth look like in your practice? And this one I just felt was gonna be a fun rift with you and me because we have practices that.

DAT-Dana (01:23)

you

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (01:40)

I think are on both sides of this coin and how do offices know? So I’m excited Dana to rift with the one and only dynamic dynamite, Dainty on the pod.

DAT-Dana (01:52)

It’s getting longer and longer, but I love it.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (01:56)

But what’s crazy is Dana like here’s a fun fact about Dana that you guys might not know for those of you who’ve listened for a while great welcome if you haven’t go back and listen to some of them Dana’s been Don’t is with Dana. I think still my favorite one, but ⁓ Dana has this wild memory you tell her one time like I can change alliterations on Dana multiple times which we’ve done with core values and Dana has the most current one always Dana I don’t know how your memory does this cuz I’m like you’ll remember that on

whatever May date we’re doing this podcast on that on that date it was dynamic dynamite Dainey and you’re like yeah Kiera that was the latest one and I’m like how like I have a good memory but you even skunk me like it’s impressive has this always been the case for you like did you crush everybody on memory like that game memory

DAT-Dana (02:37)

Yeah, it is. It’s always been the

case. And it’s weird. I was trying to explain it to Britt and Nikki one time. And it’s like, my brain just automatically like does alliterations and associates things with like other pieces that then I can, I don’t know. It’s very strange, but I’ll take it.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (02:51)

I don’t know. I love it.

So, every year for our company holiday party, if you guys don’t do it, it’s a good time. have, I hope Danny still love it. Like, but we, do fun. Kiera’s games are just made up games guys. And I have a great time and it’s always changing the rules. Tiffanie always loses. Even if I try to like slightly ethically cheat for her, like I give her 10 tickets on the beginning and I’m like, Tiff, if you can’t freaking win with that much of a jump.

DAT-Dana (03:01)

yeah.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (03:20)

but it’s always about team trivia and Dana whoops, she skunks every single year she wins it because she just has all the memory. So maybe Dana, that’s why you and I both love the holiday party. Cause I just like, even tried to make it to where you won’t win it. Not cause I don’t want you to, but I’m like, my gosh, like you skunk them every time. So it’s a fun time. We, but I’m never letting Shelbi do it again. She made me do, do you remember Jeopardy last year? I had like 200 tickets a person that I had to like peel off and raffle off.

DAT-Dana (03:32)

We have… I know.

Yes.

Sift through, I know.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (03:50)

That Shelbi is like, that one was worth 15 tickets. And so if you guys want ideas, we’re gonna talk about how to simplify our scale. Like that’s our topic. But if you want us to rift on holiday party ideas, Dana, that just might have to be a topic. So email in because the marketing team has to see that you want to know this for me to make podcasts anymore. So email [email protected] and just say like, we want to hear about all your holiday party ideas. Dana and I might get back on a rift. So, but Dana, let’s talk about.

scale or simplify, how do offices know? Like what are some of the defining pieces? Because I think this is something about Dental A Team I’m obsessed with is we don’t have a set like model, like not every office has to have X, Y or Z, it’s truly yours. like that also, I think for some offices, they just wanna be told. They wanna like, I want my mom to tell me what to do for college. Like mom, just tell me. And I think people are like, well, just tell me Dana, do I scale or do I simplify? Like how do people know? Like what’s some, and again, this is a full blown, we had a few.

Excuse me, talking points, I’m not here to follow any of them. I’m just here to talk like real life, like how do we guide offices if they should simplify our scale? What’s kind of some of the things you start with within office?

DAT-Dana (04:53)

Yeah. So usually I’ll honestly start with the owner and like, what do you truly love? Because if you don’t love managing people, if you don’t love doing the procedures that it takes to expand, if you don’t love like

running the business and crunching the numbers and doing those pieces, if that doesn’t inspire you, then let’s talk about simplifying, right? Where if, if really and truly that’s why you show up every day is for those pieces, then let’s talk about scaling, right? And what growth looks like and you know,

what that looks like for you and it might be adding practices, might be expanding the space that you’re in, it might be a variety of different things, but honestly and truly what do you love because I don’t want to build something that at the end of the day just makes you dislike coming to the office more or exponentially harder.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (05:49)

I agree with you, Dana. I think this is a spot where almost giving you as an owner, the green light to say it’s okay to stay where you’re at. ⁓ I have an office in Florida and every time we got on a call, everybody around them was telling them to expand. So they had six operatories. They’re producing 3.5 million. Their overhead, kid you not is 35%. And people were like, right. Like it’s just, ⁓ it was a great practice and they worked four days a week. It was a husband, wife duo.

And I remember we talked all the time and they’re like, Kiera, everybody thinks that we should scale. Like we should get another practice. Like we’ve got this. And I was so annoyed because I’m like, everybody chirping in your ear doesn’t realize what you want. What they wanted, their kids were a little, they’re like, we want to be home with our kids. We have a very profitable practice. We’re very happy with it. We have minimal debt on it and it’s just fulfilling our life. And what we want to do is we want to have our summers. We want to go golfing with the boys. We want to.

get on a boat and go take, they take a month off and they go travel because they can’t and they can still pay their team while they’re gone. And I think for them, they actually hit this spot of growth. And what they were looking for is they didn’t want to necessarily grow the practice. They practice like who would change that up? mean, they’ve got the, they dropped out of insurance. Like I’m talking, they have the sweetest of the suite. They work six to three. They’re off every day at three o’clock. Like you want to make a dream life for people that to me was like their dream life. And so when I looked at it,

But what they did is they got stagnated and they just needed something to fulfill. So they actually then went into like church groups and community groups and she got into bodybuilding, which Dana and I can appreciate. Like she got very obsessive about like working out and putting in and spending her time in her physical health. And he spent his time in like Bible study and giving back in the community that way that I feel that if there’s a spot, Dana, like you said,

know thyself and be free. And it might be that you want to scale, but you don’t want to scale your practice. You just need to go find another avenue of fulfillment that can be in varying shades. That doesn’t necessarily need to be the practice. So I don’t know because I’m such a like, I love to grow, but I have to ask myself like, why am I growing? it for my own ego? And I’m like, no, I want to like help 500 dentists. Like we’re at like a hundred, 200 dentists. Like for me, how do I help 500 dentists? And then how am going to help a thousand dentists? And how do we do that as a company? And that to me,

is the MO more than the dollars is like the big MO is big impact in dentistry. And so it’s the number of dentists that we serve and we help. ⁓ That’s what lights me up. But like Dana said, managing the team screw that we’re bringing on a C-suite for a reason. Like I don’t want to deal with that. I don’t want to, like I need to build and to create. And that was, makes me happy. ⁓ But I think you do it because you want to do it, not because you feel like everybody else around you does it. But Dana, like, I don’t know how to, we can say this on a podcast, but like, how do you really help a dentist?

see that that’s okay. I don’t know, because we had another dentist who came to our mastermind in person and she told me, said, Kiera, I’m not like them. Like I don’t have big dreams. Like I’m perfectly content doing nonprofit dentistry and taking my team on nonprofit trips. And I was like, how did you miss the loud blaring message that I preach from ups on stage? Like

We don’t care what you do. Like there’s a dentist who works three days a week and he’s so freaking happy. And I’ve got a dentist who’s working like six days a week and he’s so freaking happy. And she’s so happy. Like ultimately it’s not about production. It’s not about days you’re working. It’s not about size of practice. It’s about what makes you happy. But Dana, I feel like people don’t see that. And they’re like, no, I need to be bigger or I need to do this. Otherwise I’m failing. I don’t know. What are your thoughts on that?

DAT-Dana (09:24)

Yeah, and I think it is having an honest conversation that sometimes like comparison is the thief of joy. And like you said, know thyself and be free. And so oftentimes, I will put together just like, a couple options, right? Okay, so you could do this, and this is what this would look like. So we could expand the practice, it could have this many ops in order to fill this many ops, we’re gonna have to bring in an associate, right? And sometimes when you map out, you go down the road of, okay, now this is going to be hiring this many people. And this is going to be the process of

creating a new building and this is, they kind of start to see, right? And they’re like, I always talk to them about, okay, think about these plans, let’s walk them through together. And like, does that make you feel joyful, excited, giddy, inspired, motivated? Or does that feel like it’s going to be more work, daunting, more stress, those types of pieces? And yes, sometimes even the growth that you want has a little bit of stress added, right? Or has a little bit more work added in the beginning. But you should be truly excited

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (10:12)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

DAT-Dana (10:23)

And you should be ready to tackle it and feeling refreshed, not looking at it and kind of feeling like, my gosh, I’m already burnt out just even thinking about the plan.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (10:32)

I would agree with you. And I think that there’s like a, I think that’s a good litmus test that you brought up Dana of like, how do I feel? Like, is that like a heavy weight and burden? Because like for me building a C-suite now in the company that actually freaking lights me up. Like I’m like, all right, let’s like try to figure this out. I get excited to learn that piece of the business ⁓ building out and how can we do these different pieces? Like I get really excited, like building the client journeys. Those things still like excite me. But a few years ago when we talked about growing,

I was like hard no. It was a like put a stop on everything. If you ask me to build one more thing, I’m tapped. Like I just didn’t have it in me. And so I also hope people realize that like just because you want something today or you don’t want something today, that doesn’t mean it’s a forever process. Like it can evolve and it can morph with you. And timing is everything. Like Dana, there’s some offices where I feel like they’re like sleepers and they’re just asleep and asleep and asleep. And then all of a sudden like, and I’m going to expand to 10 ops. And you’re like,

All right, sweet. Like you and I both have a client in Nebraska and it was like sleepy client just going along status quo. And then all of a it’s like, and I’m going to buy the building next door and I’m adding on to dentists. we’re like, great, you’re lit up for this. let’s build it. So I think when people, don’t know, maybe this can help people. My family was always like, where are going to move? Jason and I, this is a conversation we talked about on a regular basis. And someone said the other day, they were like, I’m going to move to the East coast. And I was like, you really want to like build your family there. And she said, Kiera, it’s not forever.

Like I could just go live there for two years and I could move back to the West coast. And I think sometimes we believe like I do that where I live is my forever permanent, like non-negotiable. And if I’m going to scale or I’m going to simplify, that’s my forever non-negotiable rather than like, this is the season and time I’m at. That office that I talked about, their kids are getting older. I know they’re starting to think about different things and what they want their life to look like. And so I also want you to realize that if you choose to scale or you choose to simplify,

They’re not irreversible decisions. Like if you scale it up, there’s a doctor that just joined us and she’s a really awesome example. I’m getting her on the podcast. I can’t wait to bring her on. Dana doesn’t even know about this client. She’s new to the company. She’s awesome. She freaking blew up a business. Like she launched it. It rocked. She expanded. She built it so big. And then COVID hit and she was in a space where oil and gas were her main clientele. And all of her patients had that. And she’s like, I lost them all. She’s like, so I had added 10 more ops to my practice.

I had to scale it back down to what it was before, make it go through. And I had this like huge lease on me. And I think about her that like, even if you expand it out and blow it out, she still was able to get herself back to profit margins, found a way around it. That for, I think people, maybe Dana, get nervous and it’s like, this is my, I don’t know, my like glory or my doom forever. But it’s like, it’s just decisions and it decides on if it lights you up or if takes you down. I don’t know. I’ve said a lot of words. What do you think on that, Dana?

DAT-Dana (13:26)

No, I agree with you. agree. And I think that, too, like you said, people have different seasons in their lives. And at different points, they want different things. And it’s okay to want something now to build it and then to decide that that isn’t where you want to sit forever. And then we pivot, we come up with other plans. And in the reverse, it’s like, oftentimes, I feel like offices don’t realize how much you can simplify but still grow. And so, you know, I think it’s just going through.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (13:29)

Thank

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Say that again, because I think people

might have missed that. Say that again, Dana.

DAT-Dana (13:57)

Yeah, you can still simplify things in your practice and have massive growth.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (14:03)

Yes. Bingo. I also hope people hear that because like that practice I was sharing in Florida and Dana, you’ve got some offices right now that we talked about. We had a case study where they were negative cash. They simplified and they have grown and they’ve expanded so much. think people often feel, I don’t know, I’m going to be hated. I can tell. I’m like playing with my hair a lot right now. That means I’m nervous to say what I’m about to say. So if you’re watching, thanks for, I’m sure the marketing team is going to love cropping this.

I think some people feel the ego pull to be larger when that’s not really what they want to do. And so they expand or they build because it is really sexy to go to an event or to talk to your bros or your girls and say, this is my office and look how amazing it is. But I think that there’s a silent killer that sits inside where they’re under debt, they’re exhausted, they’re so tired and they don’t want that versus my practice in Florida. On the outside, I remember looking at it I was like,

This doesn’t strike me as their office, but they’re like, here it’s cheap. It’s paid for it fits our clientele and the inside was gorgeous and they renovated it at times. It’s a small, tiny office, but I’m like, it does not need to be the grandiose. Like they’re not going to go up in a presentation and throw the exterior of their building on a screen. Like it’s not, it’s not something where you drive by and you’re like, wow, I want that dental office. But what I do is I want the profitability. want the life. I want the interior. I want the people that come to that practice. I want the team of that practice.

that I think sometimes ego drives. And again, the exterior of this practice is not like, I think it’s a beautiful practice. It’s not one though that I’m gonna drive by and stop and be like, my gosh, like this. And so I think sometimes people get that temptation pull. I mean, I’ve had it. Dana, do you know how embarrassed I used to, I shouldn’t tell you this, you were part of it. I used to be embarrassed to post about our team when we do like our Disneyland retreats and there was five of us. And I was like, because we look like.

We look like this piddly little consulting company and I was embarrassed about it. And I wanted to have that giant team picture. And I’ll tell you having a freaking giant team picture. That’s a lot of mouths, a lot of headache and a lot of stress, but like, feel the ego pole as a leader and a business owner. And it used to be like, loved my team and we were five. I loved us. Like Dana, do you remember the Disneyland retreat sitting in that room together? Like we had some killer fun times together and my life was exponentially easier.

DAT-Dana (16:18)

Yeah.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (16:26)

But like, how do you talk about the ego pull? Even though that’s not necessarily, like, I don’t want the stress, Dana. I don’t want that. I want, I actually want the number of clients we serve today with that, intimate team. Like that’s really, and I think we are getting closer to actually having that. think we’ve been doing a better job there, but like, how do you have that ego pull, not pull you because simplicity is not fun to refine. And we could have done probably a lot more on a lot less people.

⁓ And now I’m getting people that text me like, my gosh, look at your team. Like I want to join Dental A Team. And I’m like, well, thank you. You don’t know like the chaos behind the scenes. ⁓ How do you prevent? Because I think there was a piece of me that might have grown for ego and status too. And like I’ve never admitted that on the podcast, but I hope people recognize that like these are real conversations too.

DAT-Dana (17:15)

Yeah, I think it’s just an open and honest conversation about why and about where they are and about what their options are I have a doctor right now who like really really

keeps reiterating how much he wants multiple practices. And we’ve had to have just kind of a reality conversation of, hey, I will help you build whatever it is that you really truly want. Also though, we just had a conversation about you wanting to start a family, right? And so I always say to him, right, the right decision comes at the right time. And if it’s not the right time, maybe it’s not the right decision. And let’s just take a look at what it would look like to actually be able to get you out of this practice a little bit more to then start to build your family, to then

maybe be able to have practice number two and practice number three that you don’t have to be dependent to be in practice number one anymore. And so I do think it’s just an open and honest conversation. And sometimes as a coach or as a consultant, these conversations can be uncomfortable.

But let’s take a look at where you are. Let’s take a look at why you want to do this thing. Obviously, we’re going to look at the numbers to make sure that it makes sense and to make sure that you can do it as as minimal stress as possible. But ultimately, why do you want this? Why do you want this thing? Right? What is driving you to do it? What do you hope that it creates? And if all of those pieces really align with what you want, great. And that’s awesome. And if they don’t, let’s figure out a different way.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (18:37)

Yeah. And I hope everybody has heard throughout this entire episode, Dana has been saying that there’s another option. There’s a different way that we could figure out something. And I think that that’s the benefit of having a coach go through this with you on the simplifier scale, because I know as a business owner, really it’s a like, it feels like it’s a straight up line. Like you start here and then you grow your team and you grow your profits and you grow your production. You hope you grow your profits. but like that’s kind of how it feels like in business linear. But I think with coaching,

Dana, I’ve seen hundreds of offices and it’s a like, well, great. You can have a family today and we can build it. Like you said, we could build practices that don’t even rely on you. You can have associates. I’ve had doctors who have associates that go and open. They just get part of the ownership of it, but they have to do nothing of it. They like help fund it and that’s all their requirement is. And the doctor’s super happy. They’re super happy. And I think what I’ve learned too, Dana, is for people to realize, like, I think, like I said, I think it’s a straight linear is how in my mind it feels.

but I’d like you to almost see it as a spiderweb or there are so many different, or maybe a better analogy is like Venice. Let’s do Venice. That feels a little prettier. There are so many winding sideways and different routes. Like it’s not just the canal you need to follow. And I think having a consultant, having a coach, having people that are in a community, talking of different ways, I genuinely know and believe that there are probably 200 different ways to get to the ultimate goal you want that doesn’t maybe look the way you’re painting it in your head today. And I think Dana, you could attest to that as well.

DAT-Dana (20:04)

Yeah, absolutely.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (20:06)

So Dana, if there’s a doctor out there that’s like, do I simplify, I scale? What would you recommend like in quick like two or three bullet points that they do today to make that decision cleaner for them?

DAT-Dana (20:16)

Yeah, I think first and foremost, really think about what you want for your life, not just your practice. Think about…

how much time you want to be at the office, what are the things that you want to do, ⁓ just kind of where you are in your space of life. And I think too, honestly, second thing on that list would be like reach out for help, talk to people who’ve done it, reach out to a coach. If it’s not a coach, find a mentor, find somebody in your area that has expanded or has but in a second practice. What are the lessons that they would tell you? What are the things that they would tell you to look out for? ⁓

and also too, like what are other options? And so I feel like use your network or look for a coach.

Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (20:59)

Yeah, and that’s why she’s called Dynamic Dynamite Dana because with that, that’s a perfect wrap. And I hope all of you take her advice. Reach out, we’d love to chat with you. Like, I’ll give you free advice. We’ll talk to you. Our team’s here. Be a part of our community. And Dana, thank you for being on the podcast. I appreciate you in my life. I appreciate you on the podcast. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening. I’ll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.