Episode : #1,181: How to Bridge That Trust Gap Between Doctor and Team

Podcast Description

Do things feel a little disconnected between team members in your practice? Tiff and Dana discuss the common signs that usually mean your practice could use a communication refresher, and then give advice on what can be done about improvement.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back at you on the podcast slash video cast, which is still really weird to me. I think I spend more time getting prepped and ready for the podcast than I do for coaching calls, which is wildly, wildly annoying. And here we are. I secretly do

wish that we could just be off camera still, but I I know I enjoy watching the podcast and Aaron watches podcasts every morning. So here we are. Dana, you are my favorite podcaster on a Friday. I love ending my week with you. I love beginning my week with you as well. You are an amazing podcaster and just an incredible person. How are you today, Dana?

DAT-Dana (00:44)

Doing pretty good. Excited. I know this is a good way to like have a solid Friday. Get some tip time.

Tiffanie (00:50)

It is.

DAT-Dana (00:51)

Get to get to chat. it is a great way to end

Tiffanie (00:54)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (00:54)

the week.

Tiffanie (00:55)

I agree. I agree. And I I was excited because I forgot what the schedule I look at my schedule a million times. This week has been weird. and I look at it a million times, a million times. I even put podcasting in a different color on my calendar so that I know that it’s like it’s coming. And then this morning I was like, Happy surprise podcasting today. Like two hours ago, I was like, my gosh, this is wild tough. I just can’t get it together this week. But alas, I think it’s because Brody’s birthday threw me off.

He turned eighteen and that has been spinning my world. So here we are, Dana. You have littles at home. It’s summer right now and at the point of recording this, we all have we all have some sort of children at home on some level. And how are how’s your summer over there going with the with the clan? You have a whole clan.

DAT-Dana (01:44)

Yeah, it’s going good. It’s it’s super busy.

Tiffanie (01:48)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (01:48)

I feel like, you know, I get to summertime and I’m like, vacation and relaxation and it never happens.

Tiffanie (01:54)

No.

DAT-Dana (01:56)

but they’re enjoying what downtime they get. They’re enjoying, you know, being in sports and and the sunshine. So it’s good

Tiffanie (02:03)

Good.

DAT-Dana (02:03)

overall.

Tiffanie (02:05)

Good. And I feel like school comes like school starts back up so fast. Like you think you have time and then it’s just summer’s gone.

DAT-Dana (02:14)

Yeah, I know. I’m like I can’t believe it’ll be here in like a week, really. Yeah.

Tiffanie (02:17)

Literally. I know.

Up here, in Phoenix they started going back to school last week. My nieces already had a week and a half of school.

DAT-Dana (02:24)

my gosh, that’s

Tiffanie (02:26)

I know.

I know. But modified year round, that’s what we like to do around here. And I think East Coast, they really don’t go back until most of them don’t go back until after Labor Day. So then they’re like wildly thrown off with the mid July start of school.

DAT-Dana (02:41)

Mm. Yep.

Tiffanie (02:42)

But here we are. today we are talking about leadership and that’s one of our favorite topics. I think Dana, you and I definitely thrive in the leadership world and like communication is really, really massive. I think both of us

thrive on communication in our personal lives as well, and just really, really look for those opportunities to create clarity, create trust, to be vulnerable. and all of those pieces. And today’s conversation kind of encompasses all of those, I feel. And it has been coming up for me a couple of times, Dana you and I spoke. You’ve had it come up a couple of times on coaching calls as well. And really talking about and looking at that transparency space.

between a doctor and a team? And I think you and I have some really phenomenal ideas on this. And first I wanna work through kind of workshop with you backwards. Like what is it that a doctor can maybe find in their lives that says maybe we need a little bit more communication or or this space isn’t as evolved as it could be? Like what are some signs and symptoms that you’ve seen within teams that say, hey, we’re not

connected a hundred percent and there’s a gap here because I do think Dana a lot of times the team knows and notices, but oftentimes the doctor, like to their credit, they’re doing dentistry. They’re over there working, they’re head down and they don’t always realize that there’s a gap, but the the team does. So what are some of those signs or symptoms that you’ve witnessed with your practices recently or previously?

DAT-Dana (04:21)

Yeah, I think a couple big ones are when it’s hard to delegate. I think to when like expectations aren’t met, oftentimes there’s a gap in communication there, as well as team members not feeling bought in, right? And

Tiffanie (04:37)

Mm.

DAT-Dana (04:38)

yet we feel like we’re saying all the things, we’re explaining all the things, and yet team members don’t seem really bought in or really aligned.

with pieces, I think those are three that I notice pretty routinely in offices that there is just either a communication gap, a trust gap, or something, there’s a disconnect somewhere.

Tiffanie (04:56)

Yeah, I love those. I think that’s spot on. And within that like delegation and expectation and maybe even follow through. So maybe you’ve asked for things and the team’s not doing it. you’ve asked for systems to be put in place and they’re just not getting completed, or you see you maybe implemented some systems to get a specific result and we’re still not hitting that result. those are huge, Dana. That was that was phenomenal. And

Some of them that I’ve seen too are like an upset manager, like an easily upset manager or a frantic manager, a frantic front office team. I feel like they get hit with it the hardest when there’s a a gap and a disconnect and the like frantic or overwhelmed. I actually was listening to a podcast yesterday that was talking about the idea of like actually listening, of being a good listener. And

one spot that it brought up was this sense of overwhelm where a lot of people will come to us and say, gosh, I’m overwhelmed. There’s too much on my plate. And so then what a manager or or an owner will do is say, okay, well let’s look at what you got. Let’s figure it out. And and I remember I told Kira this actually probably July. So probably like six months ago, I told Kira this. I said, Kira, you can find you and I are phenomenal at finding space in a calendar. We can find

blank space and and time in a calendar for the duties and the things that I’m supposed to get done. Right. And I think managers will say that too. Like, yeah, I can see the time and we’ll look at things, Dana, and be like, I think they should be able to do this. So if they can do the things, but they’re saying there’s an overwhelm, this podcast talked about it’s not necessarily always, sometimes it is, an overwhelm of physical tasks, like things that need to get done.

Oftentimes it’s an emotional overwhelm that’s overriding the tasks that need to get done. And so the the emotional aspect of it and sometimes it’s that gap in communication can create this whirlwind sense of not being able to accomplish the thing. So I’ve seen that a ton in front office team members and managers where they’re like, gosh, I can’t get to the I can’t get to the unscheduled treatment calls.

Because I I don’t have time. There’s no space. And I’m like, it’s it they’re not gonna answer. Like, leave a voicemail, send a text. Like ninety-nine point nine percent of the time people aren’t answering the phone. So it really doesn’t take that much time, but that’s not the actual issue. Like, there’s a root cause underneath that we have to dig into, and all of those things that you said, Dina, those are the symptoms that something else is going on. And I think usually it’s an emotional.

space and a and a communication gap or an emotional distance between two people that causes that.

DAT-Dana (07:53)

Yeah, I completely agree with you.

Tiffanie (07:55)

And I think even at home, right? Like sometimes we’re like, he never takes all the trash, or he never does this. I have to do everything. And it’s like maybe we just haven’t connected on an emotional level to be able to see the contributions that each of us are making. Like we’re so disconnected that everything is then something. And I think that happens I say really all the time. Relationships are relationships, they’re just like formed a little bit differently, but your connection and your communication is relatively similar.

So if anyone can see themselves in any of that, a team member, a doctor who’s here, or a doctor who might think like, wow, I thought everything was okay, but I do hear the word overwhelm a lot or stressed or tired or I don’t have, I don’t have, I don’t have time, I don’t have space, I don’t have s a spot to do it in. If you’re hearing those things over and over and over again, it might be more of a trust gap and a communication gap.

than an actual physical tasks gap. So I beg of you before jumping to hire a new team member, because Dana, how many times have we witnessed that we must need someone else? And I’m like, you’ve got 16 people for a

DAT-Dana (09:08)

Right.

Tiffanie (09:08)

four op practice. You’re fine. Or how

DAT-Dana (09:11)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (09:11)

many virtual assistants do you need? Before we jump to hiring a new person, number one, take a look at the space that you have. Dana and I have countless times.

talked through an org chart and an ops manual and all those pieces. We talk about those all the time because they work. So take a look at the space that you have, like what you’re trying to create, what your practice is. What is the organizational chart? How who do you need physically? Not the people you already have, but like the seats. What are the seats that you need in your practice to be successful? Because if all those seats are filled, now we need to take a step back and say, okay, great, why isn’t this working? And

If they’re not filled, awesome, let’s hire. But if they are filled, now it’s just working reverse engineering backwards. So with that, Dana, how do you think the trust gap, right? Because I I really think communic communication gap is like when there’s not communication happening, it’s very easy to say we have a communication gap. But really what it boils down to is that without that communication, my trust is broken because I’m trying to figure things out.

DAT-Dana (10:23)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (10:23)

So

how do you feel are some common areas or ways that that trust gap is created between a doctor and a team?

DAT-Dana (10:33)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think the first and foremost thing that I see, and I have an office that really, really struggles with this. And it is that like the doctor will announce things or share things before they’re

Tiffanie (10:46)

Mm.

DAT-Dana (10:47)

actually fully 100% in place or going to happen. And then when it doesn’t happen, or he changes his mind, or he makes a different decision or pivots down a different path, the team members one feel like whiplash.

Right. And then two, don’t always know when to trust the office manager and the doctor in that it is actually going to happen. Right. So when to prep themselves and when to really start to get things into place because oftentimes they’ve started those pieces and then it just feels like time or work wasted because the decision pivots or changes. And so it’s really, really broken down.

Trust in that way because team members, one, aren’t really sure if things are really happening. And then two, frustration happens on doctor and leadership when they’re like, Why aren’t they excited? Why aren’t they bought in? Why aren’t they ready

Tiffanie (11:32)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (11:33)

to go? Why aren’t they super motivated? Right. And that’s because the team is like, Well, it’s changed 35 times. And so we’re just kind of waiting until we know for sure because we don’t want to feel like we wasted our time, our energy, our effort.

Tiffanie (11:45)

Yeah. Yeah. I all I think when that not when I think a lot of times when those things happen, the team muscle memory reverts back to the original way of doing it. So then you’ve got a billing representative that’s sending paper claims because she’s like, I know this works, right? Yeah.

DAT-Dana (12:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (12:04)

Yeah. And then you’ve got a doctor that’s like, I’m paying AI Yes.

DAT-Dana (12:08)

I wanna be super tech savvy and I’m paying AI and we’re still sending

paper claims. Yeah.

Tiffanie (12:14)

Yes,

and an office manager who’s like, Well, I don’t know what to tell you, but I’ve got an overloaded plate of things here ’cause I have people coming in my door constantly crying and saying they’re overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah.

DAT-Dana (12:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (12:28)

And I think that’s a common thing and I I I know that it’s really exciting to like be on the threshold of innovation. And dentistry is constantly innovating.

And within that, we’ve got you know the scanners and the tech and the AI and the I mean, gosh, like the AI like pearl tools that are reading x-rays and now insurances are starting to use those things like innovation is constant in dentistry. And I think oftentimes what that makes us feel like is that the simple systems that have gotten us here also need to innovate and change. And so we’re throwing all of these tech innovations from a back office standpoint now.

into every aspect of the practice, but we’re also saying, okay, cool, well if I can do this with a scanner, why can’t you do something different with insurance verifications? And it’s like, I can’t even fathom that. And then they’re saying, okay, well, try this, try that, try this, try that, try this. And in dentistry, when you’re trying to find a new bond and primer, cool, try it until you find the one that works. But when you’re overloaded with like to-dos and

paperwork is what we’ll call it, tasks. It’s not as easy to try it and see if it works and continue to do that. So that innovative mind tries to cover so much ground that we do end up with so many changes and it’s like a pivot constantly. Gosh, Kira and I had we had pivot. I don’t remember Dana when it was. You might have been here for pivot. I don’t remember. Yeah. Like I don’t remember how long ago it was. That was

DAT-Dana (14:04)

Yep. Yes. Yeah.

Tiffanie (14:08)

the worst year of our

freaking lives in this company. We had pivot as a core value and we use pivot as a core value because we want to be on the threshold of inva innovation and we want to be able to roll with the punches. Like, okay, great, something came up, great. We we figure it out and we move on is what we meant by pivot. But what happened that year, Dana? What did that year look like?

DAT-Dana (14:27)

It was chaos because we also used pivot as a reason to be able to like justify lots of change, right?

Tiffanie (14:33)

Correct.

Correct. So we just like constant it was like this wheel that it just never ended, right? A wheel just keeps going, keeps going, but on every little tread was a new something. And so every time that tread hit the ground, it was a change, it was a change, it was a change. And I think it’s really easy in business, and in entrepreneurship to do that because you are having to create, you know, Wells Fargo and Chase, like

They’re they’ve got innovators on their team, but they’re pretty steady eddy of what that business structure needs to look like. When you’re an entrepreneur and you’re super innovative, it’s very easy to get stuck in that like let’s jump to the next thing mentality. So again, if you’re feeling yourself in this, don’t worry, it’s not just you, or we wouldn’t do an entire podcast about it, by the way. And also there are solutions. And Dana, you’ve you said you’ve got

you know, practices you can think of, I think both of us do, because again, it’s not just you, it’s everyone that go through this. What are some ways that you help your teams and your doctors to bridge that gap when those things come up? Like when we’re in this constant state of change and they’re like, I’m out, I can’t even get excited anymore. How do you help them bridge that gap?

DAT-Dana (15:50)

Yeah, I think it is it it is getting them to understand that like while change is really, really great, you have to understand that your team members are who is implementing the change. So be cautious and cognizant of how many things you’re changing at once. Be cautious and cognizant that the team feels like, hey, yep, we’ve got this, we can do it independently, we’re good, before we add the next change. So just really keeping a pulse on those pieces. And then two, just really

Making sure that you get to a certain point in your decision making process before you’re

Tiffanie (16:25)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (16:25)

involving the team. And even your office manager, right? Another breakdown of trust that I see is it’s like we either share too much or share too little, right? With the people

who then help us implement or help us guide those decisions. And so I think like figuring out that clarity of what is the right amount to share.

Or when is the right time to share and who those appropriate channels are. So just like you said with the org chart tip, I think as you’re

Tiffanie (16:52)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (16:53)

building out your org chart, building and knowing like, okay, when it comes to what I need to share, who actually do I need to share certain things with and having clarity amongst you, your leaders, and the people that are on your org chart about those things.

Tiffanie (17:09)

Yeah, that’s beautiful. And it made me think of just like how much communication you have with those key players in the practice. And a and a couple of dissecting pieces there, Dana. The team and team members who are here doesn’t need to know everything. The leadership

team of the practice needs to know.

what they need to know in order to push the needles forward. And as you were talking, I was thinking oftentimes doctors go like a full in it or out of it, right? It’s either one or the other. And so they’re either oversharing or they’re sharing nothing because it’s hard to find that happy medium. And something we do with our offices and something we do in our own company is we create those targets. And so when you have those yearly targets, those quarterly rock targets that you’re looking at.

we’re able to say, does this push us towards our targets or is this a distraction? And Dana, I think after the year of pivot, that’s something we implemented and we stuck to because Kira is an idea like machine. She her famous words are, I have an idea. Right. And my famous words are awesome, what is it? Let’s go. Right. I don’t even need to hear it. And I’m like, yep, let’s do it.

And so then the whole company just goes into this spiral. So it needs to be a space of of innovation. So you’ve got to have be able to have the ideas, but then you need someone, what’s where Britt comes into our company really strong?

DAT-Dana (18:41)

Hm.

Tiffanie (18:42)

Someone in between the heck yes girl and the idea generator that says, hang on a second, is this pushing us forward or is this just a distraction? So they go on like I have doctors that have made them carry notebooks.

For ideas. It’s an idea book or an idea board. It’s like I’ve got all of these great ideas, but let’s go back to them when the timing is right. So if the timing is right right now for that thing, great, let’s add it to our list of to-dos or our changes or updates. Let’s do it. Let’s figure out how to do it and then implement with the

team when everything’s ready to go. Don’t implement prior and then we all figure it out together. You guys figure it out, you implement and then you follow through.

And all of those other things stay on that like idea board. If it’s not generating what we need it to generate today, it might later. And Dana, I don’t know how many times I’ve I’ve even gone back to my own boards, but that I’ve had doctors, I have one doctor in particular that I’m thinking of, and I hope she listens to this and knows exactly who I’m talking about. I know she will, because I bought her the notebook and the special pen and she would carry it around. She had it for years. And sometimes she’d go back to the other pages and be like

I don’t even know what these words mean. I don’t know what this idea was. So I was like,

DAT-Dana (19:59)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (20:01)

great. No reason to like try to figure it out, cross it out. If it was that important, it was gonna be that phenomenal and life-changing, you’ll think of it again. It’ll come back up.

DAT-Dana (20:11)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (20:12)

And otherwise that idea would have been something that we jumped on, right? So we jump and we change and we jump and we change, but we need to be able to have that space of discussion. So what I have a lot of doctors and office managers do is whether you’ve got a full leadership team or not.

Doctors and office managers are meeting weekly. I had to do this years ago with my doctor when I was office manager just to keep up with his ideas. And if I didn’t catch him before he caught the team, I was

DAT-Dana (20:42)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (20:42)

in a frenzy, like backtracking, trying to fix things, right? I had people in my office like, why are we doing this? I’m like, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I’ve never heard that before. So I had to catch him and be like, nope, everything funnels here.

We talk here. This is where we talk about project status. This is where I tell you what where I’m at on the projects we’ve already said yes to. This is where you bring problems, issues, and ideas. Same for me. And we discuss them and we figure out what’s being implemented to the team. So again, whether there’s like a whole leadership team doing it or not, that trusted person in your practice who’s supposed to carry things out is the person that needs to have these conversations. Even as far Dana, I think, as

Hey, in the next five years, I’d love to do a build out. Cool. But like that’s not today. So then when you

DAT-Dana (21:28)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (21:28)

go to the team and you’re like, yeah, we’re gonna get bigger, some are gonna be like, yes, when? And five years is a long time. And others are gonna be like, I don’t want to get any bigger. Peace. You know? Do

DAT-Dana (21:38)

Yeah. Yep.

Tiffanie (21:40)

you do that too, Dana? With those, I know we do it in our company, but those kind of like office manager and doctor meetings, do th are those working for your practices too?

DAT-Dana (21:49)

Yeah, they really are. And I think that it’s it’s the it’s the doctor understanding that and then the office manager really making sure that we follow those lines

Tiffanie (21:57)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (21:57)

and and really making sure too that sometimes we mess up, right? We’re human and so we we skip over. But then also just teaching the team, hey, if something’s brought to you that doesn’t come from me, bring it back to me so we can talk about it,

Tiffanie (22:06)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (22:07)

we can figure it out. but yeah, I feel like that is such a key tool into not feeling like

Chaotic, when it’s not

Tiffanie (22:15)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (22:16)

funneled down, when ideas are just thrown out there and we’re just changing things and changing things and changing things because we had this idea, but it wasn’t actually super important. And so we keep trying to change it and manipulate it to make it be important. When you have those kind of conversations, the chaos and the overwhelm in the office goes down and the trust really starts to increase too.

Tiffanie (22:37)

I agree. You said something there. You said, when something comes to you that I didn’t bring, bring it to me. That’s a huge space. And I think that’s a space where managers can work really hard at bridging the trust gap between yourself and the doctor. A lot of managers are afraid to say what needs to be said to their doctors and you lose trust and that doctor loses trust in you too. If you’re not willing to say, Hey, I this was brought to my attention.

What are we doing with that? Like what is that? I didn’t you didn’t come through me, which isn’t not everything has to come through me, but I didn’t know about it. So what is this? Not being able to not being able to say that, now you’ve got a huge issue, office managers, massive, because now you have asked your team to funnel to you like a dramatic little tattletale, and you’re gonna start going, he did it again. there she goes, in front of your team.

Instead of being like, yeah, let me know, keep me in the loop, and then going and talking to your doctor. Because if you go and talk to your doctor, your doctor’s like, shoot, you’re right. I didn’t follow I didn’t follow the lines again. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Right? That’s the trust gap, and that’s the second, the second that office managers break that trust and start getting the team to rally against the doctor because they feel slighted or they feel like, he didn’t tell me because he doesn’t trust me.

No, we didn’t tell you because the dental assistant was closer. It doesn’t matter. It’s not, it’s not typically out of spite. It’s not typically even thought about. It’s this is the person who’s the closest proximity to me right now, and I need to say it and get it out. Period. There’s no malintent. Yes.

DAT-Dana (24:19)

Yeah. Because I’m afraid I’m gonna forget it, or I’m afraid, you know, or I’m so excited about

it. You’re right. There’s no malice in there. And I love how you said go back, and it’s not, it’s not you jumped over me, right? You skipped over me. It’s hey, I just heard of this thing. This is the first time I’m hearing about it. What’s my role in it? Right? Where

Tiffanie (24:38)

Yep.

DAT-Dana (24:38)

do what what am I supposed to do? What’s the plan for

how I’m supposed to get this implemented. Do you’ve got a time frame? Do you have again, it’s just you’re kind of coming more from that curiosity of, hey, I heard about something I hadn’t heard about before. What’s the plan here? Because there is, again, like you said, that’s just it’s not ever malicious when it comes to those

Tiffanie (24:57)

Yeah. Yeah. It’s not

DAT-Dana (25:00)

types of things.

Tiffanie (25:01)

it’s not. I like to remind people we’re not that important. Our egos tell us the opposite and that everything is about us and that they must be mad at us. Like I they’re not thinking about us as much as we are. I’m not that important. So if I can if I can be like Chill, Tiff, you’re not that important. As in like they didn’t do it to you, just go find out the information. So if you can just come in at like a neutral space of

non-emotional attachment, not thinking that someone was doing something to you, you can get to the bottom line in the answer and start to train the habits that need to be trained. And I think Dana, those are two massive like earlier I was like, what are the action items? Like I think those are the two action items, right? As org chart, make sure that you know the order of operations, like who who talks to who, how do how do things get nailed down to the team and increasing those

office manager and doctor meetings, making sure that you’re having those meetings and then office managers increasing your communication back to the doctor. I had to learn this with Kira that I wasn’t always reporting back. And I was like, what like yes, I did my job. Like, stop asking me. Stop

DAT-Dana (26:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffanie (26:13)

asking me. And so many people say they’re just micromanagers, right? Like, okay, yeah, they’re micromanagers. And you know what? It’s fine.

they have an entire business that they’re trying to run. The way that you battle micromanaging is you report back. So

DAT-Dana (26:26)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (26:26)

guess what? It’s fine. This like ideal that the society has come up with about micromanaging, like whatever, we just have to make sure that things are getting done. So delete the term and just say, I need to report back. So org chart, increase your meetings and your one on one meetings or leadership. And still I think even Dana

Even if there’s a leadership team, I still think it’s very important for the doctor and the manager to meet, even outside of leadership. And

DAT-Dana (26:52)

I agree. Yeah.

Tiffanie (26:55)

then managers learn how to report back and communicate with your doctors and bridge that gap of trust starting with you. Doctors, your f your last one is if you listen to this without your manager, share it to your manager. I think it might be good for them to hear too. Dana, any parting words or anything you can think of that we missed in those action items that I was really afraid we weren’t gonna come up with.

This is how we do it.

DAT-Dana (27:19)

No, I honestly

I really loved this one and I think that there’s a takeaway for everybody from owner, doctor to to to managers to leadership team to team in this. and these things take time to implement, they take time to incorporate, but truly the change in the trust can be massive.

Tiffanie (27:37)

I agree. I agree. All right. So beginning of this podcast, we talked about the ways that you can see that you might have a trust gap. And then we walked you through how to start bridging that gap. There’s a lot more to it than what this 30 minute podcast allows for. So reach out, you guys. We are here to help. [email protected]. You can find us on the socials, Dental A Team, all of the places. And as always, leave us a five star review.

if you loved this and want to follow up, let us know as well. Cause again, this does go further than just this. Dana, thank you so much. and everyone we’ll catch you next time.