Episode : #1,212: Why Your Dental Marketing Isn’t Working (and How to Fix It!)

Podcast Description

Kiera is joined by Sean Hamel, CEO of Art of Dental Marketing, to talk about … yup, dental marketing! Sean goes through why dentists struggle so much with messaging, what the right language for patient referrals is, how to make your practice stand out from that other practice 0.2 miles away, and a ton more.

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Transcript:

Kiera (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I have a very special friend back on the podcast, Sean Hamel. He and I actually worked together. He worked in Dental A Team for a hot minute. he is a CEO and founder of the Art of Dental Marketing. He is here to talk about all things of what works, what doesn’t work. I shoot, guys, you guys know marketing is my Achilles heel. So I get really smart people in the industry to come on the podcast, talk about it. So, Sean, welcome to the show. How are you?

Sean Hamel (00:25)

Thanks, Kiera. Good, thank you. It’s always good to see you. I that was when when was the Dental A Team kinda overlap? That was like four or five years ago now. Crazy how time flies.

Kiera (00:33)

I know. It

yeah, because we were doing an event. So I think it was like three, four years ago, and we were going through like

Sean Hamel (00:38)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (00:38)

a rebrand and I still have emails from you and like campaigns that we worked on together. So it’s fun

Sean Hamel (00:44)

cool.

Kiera (00:44)

that we’ve actually like worked together and now here we are. You work with all the dentists too. So yeah, but it’s been a hot

Sean Hamel (00:49)

Absolutely.

Kiera (00:50)

minute and now here we are podcasting again together. So here we are.

Sean Hamel (00:54)

Absolutely, always good to see you.

Kiera (00:56)

Likewise. Okay, Sean, for those who don’t know you, tell them a little bit of who Sean is, how did the Art of Dental Marketing come about, and w like why you we should even listen to you today. Like basically pitch yourself.

Sean Hamel (01:07)

Absolutely.

I know there are so many dental marketers. It seems like every day there’s like 20 or 30 more, probably more than that. But I started dental marketing about 15 years ago. I was purely accidental. I have a degree in marketing, graduated, and in doing that, got a job it for a dental financial services company basically running their marketing and was meeting a lot of doctors and making friendships with a lot of doctors.

And nobody tells you when you graduate school with a marketing degree, but you suddenly become all of your friends and family’s like resident marketing expert. And

Kiera (01:41)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (01:41)

so one of my buddies was graduating from dental school, and another buddy of mine was having some issues with SEO in his practice. And so they just kind of asked me some general questions. long story short, helped them choose some solutions, wasn’t really amped about any of them, but you know, tried to help them make the best decision they could, and they didn’t get great results.

and so I started helping them and using story-based marketing, which is a big piece of what makes ADM different, we were able to get them really solid results and they gave me a lot of grace to try things. And over the course of doing that, we were able to get really good results for them. And so in doing so, other dentists that were their peers and friends and things started asking, you know, who’s doing your marketing? And so I started to get more and more clients. to now, you know, 14, 15 years later, we’ve worked with

hundreds and hundreds of doctors. and I travel all over the country speaking and teaching doctors about why dental marketing largely doesn’t work. most of the time here it’s a messaging problem. But why dental marketing doesn’t work, why no matter who you seem to hire, you can’t really get results. and also just kind of talking about why the industry is tilted in a way that it’s not really set up for doctors to be successful and they have to kind of learn as they go how to vet, how to properly seek out help.

And then even how to monitor the people they’re paying to help them to actively get results. Cause that seems to be the biggest issue for doctors is I hire seven marketing companies and nobody can

Kiera (03:10)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (03:11)

get results.

Kiera (03:12)

Okay, so dig into it. You pitched me, well, I’ll listen to you, Sean. Why doesn’t cause selfishly for myself, I’m in the same boat. I’m like, my gosh. Sean, I looked at my numbers. This is gonna be fun for you. We decided to do a revamp. I’ve done this twice. So this is

Sean Hamel (03:25)

Mm.

Kiera (03:26)

year two that I’m trying this. Like I did it a couple of years ago and then I was like, forget that. That was a really that was a five hundred thousand dollar mistake. This year I’m up to a

Sean Hamel (03:32)

Mm.

Kiera (03:32)

seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar mistake. Like I don’t know if it’s

Sean Hamel (03:34)

Mm.

Kiera (03:35)

a full mistake, but it is like it just feels like this bottomless pit in marketing. It’s like

Just keep pumping more money into it and hope and pray something works out. And then you re-pivot the strategy. And then it’s like, okay, it’s gonna take three more months to do it. So I am equally piqued. We have a great CRO on our team now that actually I’ve seen more results than I’ve ever seen. But it’s like

Sean Hamel (03:52)

Mm.

Kiera (03:54)

that’s hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like I just listed Kiera’s dirty laundry on the podcast 500,000 two years ago, 750,000 this year. Our marketing expenses are up by 350,000. So enjoy that.

Sean Hamel (04:04)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (04:04)

Like those are some big numbers. And so I don’t want any of you dentists out there being like, my $50,000 marketing is expensive.

Listen, all y’all, I know what this is. And also don’t tell me consulting’s expensive. Like I’ve gone through, I paid 250,000 for Tony Robbins. Like there is expensive consulting and then there’s also just like it is just a a good fee. So Sean, talk to us. Talk to me. Hi, I’m Kiera. I’m your I’m your client today. Tell us why doesn’t marketing work and how do we actually get it fixed?

Sean Hamel (04:29)

Well, and and d for dentists specifically, you know, dental is so unique. your issue with which is selling two dentists is a lot of times a messaging problem too. but as far as it relates to dental practices specifically, I talk about what I call the cycle of mediocrity, but it basically is what I’ve kind of drilled down over over a decade of doing this, working with hundreds of offices. And I talk about it in depth. I’ll kind of give you the the cliff notes because it is a very

long conversation. I know we’re trying to stay

Kiera (04:59)

Okay.

Sean Hamel (05:00)

like under 30 minutes here. But with dental practices, largely what happens is everybody looks the same. So if you pull up, you know, five dental practices, everybody looks the same. They say the same things. They’re hiring marketing companies that are selling very like generic templated things. So everybody looks the same. It’s all hyperclinical. You know, everybody’s trying to to chase the same people.

While they’re all looking the same. And so because of that, Kiera, the only way the marketers know how to differentiate the businesses is with discounts. So

Kiera (05:30)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (05:31)

the the practices, because everybody’s so close together and they’re all saying the same stuff, they get locked in these price and proximity battles. So they’re fighting over how can we how much can we outdiscount the practice next to us? They’re being advised by industry leaders, industry leaders to do

Kiera (05:46)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (05:47)

new new patient specials constantly.

And then a lot of it too is just, hey, this practice is 0.7 miles from my house. This practice is 0.9 miles from my house.

So

Kiera (05:55)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (05:56)

you have you have those kind of decisions happening, but you get locked in price and proximity battles, which leads to what I have kind of coined as what I call the freebie trap. But the doctors get conditioned that they have to give away what they do in order to be successful.

Kiera (06:09)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (06:09)

It’s not super helpful because that means you got to do more dentistry to make up for it. And when you’re battling on price, that’s all you’re giving people. That’s the only thing they have to make a decision off of.

But those price and proximity battles, getting in that freebie kind of mindset and constantly giving things away, that brings in non-desirable patients. And the non-desirable

Kiera (06:28)

Right.

Sean Hamel (06:29)

patients are the one everybody’s complaining about, right? They take a chair time, they don’t have credit, they’re not going to accept treatment, they come in for the special and they leave. And so that puts a lot of pressure on the practice because dental practices, as you know, you have to see somebody repeated times before you really start monetizing that relationship. But dentistry is a relationship business.

And so the one and duns put a lot of stress on the practice, and that starts to cause burnout and frustration on the team and the doctor because they’re constantly chasing this new patient number, but they’re still not making any money. They’re busy, but they’re not profitable, which is a huge problem.

Kiera (07:01)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (07:03)

So from there, the burnout starts to set in and the doctor goes out and starts throwing up Hail Marys, hoping to get help, like you are, hoping to get help. I’m spending all this money, nothing’s working.

And this is where, Kiera, the cycle mediocrity, it’s multifaceted. So the dentists are kind of their own worst enemy sometimes. The marketing

Kiera (07:19)

Right. Right.

Sean Hamel (07:20)

companies, I’m not saying marketing companies are nefarious, but a lot of people that get into dental marketing are not qualified to be here. And then the industry has kind of pitted itself in a bad spot for dentists. And the reason why I led with that is because at this point where that burnout comes in, the doctors are going out to events and study clubs and groups and they’re trying to get help. And the marketers that are being put in front of them largely

It’s not there’s no vetting of their work being done. It’s who bought the diamond sponsorship package. That’s who’s gonna get up on stage and they can say whatever they want. And there’s so many conferences that I go to and I hear people say things from the stage and I’m like, that is factually incorrect. That’s not how that works anymore. That’s not true anymore. Don’t want to get into that today, but there’s no vetting going on. And so the doctors are coming out and they’re trying to get help to be profitable, right? To be chairside less, make more money, not take the wear and tear on their bodies, hit their goals.

you know, pay for their family vacations, put their kids through school. And there’s all these marketers entering the space that are promising them the world, but there’s no accountability. And

Kiera (08:21)

Right.

Sean Hamel (08:22)

so because of that, the doctor hires the next marketer, hires the next marketer. And this here is where the cycle comes back around, is every marketer they hire largely is doing the same stuff. So it’s the same messaging, the same websites. They’re promising them the world, but they’re not actually doing anything to be able to hit that goal. And if they don’t hit the goal, there’s there’s no repercussion if they don’t.

But they hire the next marketer, promises them the world. They go through all the change and transition. They kind of go through that high of, hey, this is gonna work. It’s new, it’s exciting. And then things start to slow down. The phones slow down, right? All the growth slows down because the messaging is off, and we can get to that in a second. But they start, they call the marketing company and they say, hey, we’re not busy, or hey, this isn’t working, or hey, these leads aren’t good. And the marketing company usually will blame the front desk.

Or they’ll

Kiera (09:06)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (09:07)

say, Hey, why don’t you go you’re not you’re not busy? Well, let’s do a thousand dollars off in in Vizaline or whatever.

And so they bring the discount up and it starts back over. So no differentiation leads to this race to the bottom discount mentality, which brings the patients that they don’t want to see anyway. The patients put stress on the practice, the doctor starts throwing hail mares to get help, hires the next marketer who’s not vetted or anything like that, comes in, promises the world doesn’t do anything, aren’t busy. So the marketing company decides, well, let’s just do a discount. And that’s the loop. And that’s why practices hire seven companies and can’t ever get results.

Kiera (09:41)

So I agree with you. And that is a good way to put it in there. And as you were saying that, I say it sometimes. I’m like, practices are like dental Tinder. Like, guys, you’re just like,

Sean Hamel (09:49)

Yeah.

Kiera (09:50)

you look like everybody else and they just keep swiping. Same thing when you’re placing ads out there to hire team members. I’m like, you can’t be dental Tinder. You gotta like stand out somehow. Like in my mind, I was like, all right, it’s all black and white. Like, how do you stand out as hot pink or how do you stand out as hot blue? Like there’s gotta be something in your right. Like a lot of times it is proximity. And so I tell a lot of doctors, like,

Hey, when you take over a practice, they’re probably not gonna wanna leave you because they don’t wanna go find somebody else. Like it’s much easier for them to like you and stay where they’re familiar rather than going somewhere else. And that’s also the tricky thing is because unless I’ve got more people moving into the area or I have a very disgruntled patient, they’re kind of creatures of habit. Like switching dentists is not fun. And so that’s another piece that we have. So you just you laid it out perfectly. What’s the solve? What’s the solution? Like how do people get out of that? Because I think you’re not wrong. And I will say that that’s something

Whether it’s right or wrong, I got so annoyed. I went to so many conferences and I, my gosh, early, early on, I signed up with a marketing company. I spent 80,000 on that company. And I remember like almost bankrupting the company. I was it was just and they’re like, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going. And I’m like, I don’t have any more cash. Like, we’re gonna go under. And it was the most stressful thing I’d ever done. But it does feel like like almost like gambling, like one more pull, one more pull, one more pull. Like maybe this one will be

Sean Hamel (11:06)

Yeah.

Kiera (11:06)

big money.

and I remember it is like

Sean Hamel (11:07)

Yeah, I call it I call

it the finding Nemo, the just keep swimming thing. But yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (11:11)

Seriously though. Like I was like, I just felt like I was

just like pulling the slot machine, hoping and praying big money was coming. but it didn’t. And it was that was the early on learnings. Clearly, I keep learning them. but how do people get out of it? Because like for me, you’re right, for conferences, I got sick of it. I signed up with so many people, I was like, my gosh, like I should have done a little research on these people. But even research, like marketers, the thing that’s stressful, Sean, and I will say this too, I’m interviewing marketers right now for our company actually, and I’m like

A marketer should actually be able to sell me. Like that’s their job. So they are smoke and mirrors. They’re like their job

Sean Hamel (11:43)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (11:45)

should be to put something in front of me that I want to buy. That’s who I’m trying to buy. So then how do you cut through a good salesperson who’s actually a good doer? Because that’s what I’m really looking for in a world where their job is to sell me and to sell me well. So

Sean Hamel (11:58)

Yeah.

Kiera (11:59)

how do people get past that?

Sean Hamel (12:01)

Well,

for dental practices especially, I think the biggest thing that’s missing, well, it’s a I think it’s a two part problem. One is anybody can be a dental marketer now. So there there literally is a whole industry of influencers that are out and they’re encouraging the unqualified to do niche specialization like dentistry. So I I always say everybody can it’s really easy to be expensive now, but nobody is valuable anymore. And that’s why I say like market

Kiera (12:28)

So I say it.

Sean Hamel (12:29)

marketers aren’t

Nefarious by nature. A lot of them aren’t. They just don’t know what they don’t know. And the reason I say that Kiera is because when I started, I didn’t I did everything I learned in college and none of it worked. That’s why I had

Kiera (12:39)

Yep.

Sean Hamel (12:39)

to kind of relearn it and helping friends. And luckily those friends gave me grace to try things. But once we figured it out, it’s all it’s all emotion. Like the average person does not know who the best clinician is. And we also spend a lot of time validating things that the average consumer already gives of practice, which is that the doctor is skilled and smart and that they work on teeth.

And yet that’s most of the messaging that’s out there. And so it’s no wonder it’s problematic because people are afraid, largely are afraid of dentistry anyway. And so you’re shoving the things that they’re afraid of down their throat. And it’s not marketing differentiators because the average person doesn’t know anyway. When I speak and I talk about it, it’d be like if you went out to buy a car and you walked on the lot and the salesman was like, All of our cars have turn signals and brakes and transmissions, you’d be like, duh, because you expect that stuff to be there.

Kiera (13:29)

Right.

Sean Hamel (13:29)

And yet if

you look at the average practice, all of that wasted messaging is there. And that’s why I say it’s a messaging problem. But with regard to the industry itself and these marketers that are entering the space, like where we initially started before that kind of caveat, a lot of people you can get in dental and you can with AI and stuff, you can pull smoke and mirrors. And and there’s a whole industry of people selling white

Kiera (13:50)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (13:52)

label products to unqualified people and encouraging them to get into dental. You can charge 3x.

And the doctors don’t know any better. Like, have you have you seen the like 19-year-old looking kid that’s in his like gamer den who’s talking about I’m gonna get you 30 all-in X patients in 25 minutes? They’re buying that, they’re buying that

Kiera (14:08)

Totally. Yep. Yep.

Sean Hamel (14:11)

somewhere. And the doctor’s like, what you’re going through, there’s no way to vet that. And that’s where I want to encourage as I’m out speaking and stuff, where people come to organizations and associations and meetings.

for guidance, like do your due diligence on the other side of it, that the people you’re putting on stage are worth their salt to be speaking at your event, advising your members, telling them things to

Kiera (14:33)

Read.

Sean Hamel (14:34)

do, because they’re the ones that go back and stroke the giant checks and get no results. And then they come back trying to find help. And that kind of is where I think with marketing a lot of people, including you, you kind of just get burnt out on even trying to find help. And it’s just like, okay, what can I do to self-maintain without bleeding money? Right.

And so, with that, like as far as dental practices go, and I told you this is a lot longer conversation,

but

Kiera (15:00)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (15:01)

most consumers with a dental practice care are afraid. Fear is a huge part, and that’s what makes dentistry singular. There’s not a lot of stuff that we buy that we’re afraid of. And so most people are not operating from a feature and benefits mindset with dentistry. It’s like self-preservation, right? It’s why.

referrals work so well. Like if you really think about why patient referrals work so well, it’s because trust and safety are immediately passed because their cousin, coworker, friend from church, whatever, is validating that you’re safe and it’s a nice place to go and they’re not going to hurt me. And all of that is an emotional process that’s happening. And so to get out of the cycle of mediocrity, you stop talking about clinical stuff all the time and you start using human emotion to connect with people. So that’s patient experience. That’s the differentiator, right?

But how do you communicate that ahead of time? You really can’t. I mean, you’ve got Google reviews, you’ve got the ability to do, you know, photo tours and things. One of the biggest things that practices can do that’s easy is stop wearing scrubs. Stop wearing all your

Kiera (16:00)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (16:00)

scary gear. You don’t need tools in your hands. Don’t wear

Kiera (16:03)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (16:03)

white coats. White coat syndrome is real. Just take a picture. Just take a picture of you being a normal person. Talk about who you are. Talk about hobbies and interests and things people already know you’re smart. They know you work on teeth. They you do all the scary stuff.

Why should I pick you? you play guitar, I play guitar. Cool. We have something in common that as a human being, that means I’m wired that you’re safe. That’s safer to go there. Standing out being memorable. In this day where we’re like bombarded with advertising all the time, that’s how you do it. And that’s how you get off the cycle of mediocrity is you stop trying to do the same messaging as everybody else. Stop trying to chase discount patients all the time.

Focus on just leaning into human emotion and how people are wired and understanding that six of every ten of them is afraid of you. So it’s a different relational connection than it is just like, hey, I know you’re scared of this, but guess what? We do that really cheap. Like that’s like the 90,000 foot view of the average dental message. It’s no wonder it falls on deaf ears. And most of the time it’s quality pain-free dentistry. It’s a headshot of the doctor. All the marketing is all about the doctor. It needs to be about the patient, their outcome, right?

Hey, you’re gonna look better at the family reunion because you came and saw me. Not, hey, this is everything we’re gonna do to you and I’m really smart and here’s my headshot. So it’s those little tweaks that make all the difference.

Kiera (17:22)

Do you really believe that, Sean? Like here I am like

Sean Hamel (17:25)

What’s that?

Kiera (17:25)

digging into that. Like, I think a lot of us feel that way, but I think a lot do put themselves out there. And I’m like, that just feels like such a slow road. Like, I want to push the easy button. I want you to just do like SEO. I want it to when they search for me, I look like a good enough dentist rather than being like, let me share my entire life out there. Let me tell people because I think that they’re just spaces like business owners that like I don’t really want people to know me. I’ve had clients use my personal life against me and tell me like

Well,

Kiera XYZ. And I was like, forget that. Like, I’m not sharing half this stuff anymore. So I’m just like, it’s a I agree with you to a point. And I think that there’s a space of me that’s like, is that really true? Me going out there, me being my authentic self. Like, there’s so much noise on TikTok. There’s so much noise on Instagram. There’s so much noise there that like me as just average Kiera or average Sean or average Britt or average Kevin. My story.

Is that really going to break through the noise of all these other people chasing that bottom line? Or do I need to get people with that hook of what everyone else is doing and then win them over when they meet me?

Sean Hamel (18:29)

So I I mean that’s that’s fair and I appreciate you being devil’s advocate. I mean we see clients

Kiera (18:33)

I will.

Sean Hamel (18:34)

that have well we I mean we see clients that have tremendous success with it. Again, dentistry is singular. So what what would work for Kiera and Dental A Team isn’t what’s gonna work for a practice because most people aren’t afraid of you. So it’s a a different relationship. It’s well, I mean, I I I highly doubt it. I highly doubt it. Yeah. But

Kiera (18:45)

I hope. Some might be. I sometimes come in a little more intense, but no. But you’re right. Like

people people hire Dental A Team because they’ve met me with air quotes on the podcast.

Sean Hamel (18:57)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kiera (18:59)

You feel like I’m your friend. You feel like I’m your bestie. Like, and I should. That’s who it is. But you’re right. Like in dentistry, they’re not listening to you on a podcast getting to know you. They’re looking at your website to see do I like you or do I not like you? And do your reviews say that

Sean Hamel (19:10)

Yeah, and it’s

Kiera (19:11)

you’re good.

Sean Hamel (19:12)

and it’s in and it’s indirect cues. The the the way that our clients have so much success with this, I mean, we have we have one office that’s getting eighty X ROI using these principles

Kiera (19:20)

It’s awesome.

Sean Hamel (19:20)

and leveraging these principles. And it’s just it’s it’s not a gimmick. Like it’s not me selling you anything, it’s me trying to bring people back to center on just use the way human beings are wired to your benefit. So when people are afraid of something, we as different as we all are, we largely operate the same.

And so that’s where Google reviews and all that pulls in. There are so many people that talk about the topical thing, right? You need to get Google reviews, it’s good for SEO. You need to get Google reviews because it’s social proof, and social proof is safety for us. That’s why

Kiera (19:50)

Right.

Sean Hamel (19:50)

we hang out in packs and we always have. Even with SEO, like what you’re talking about, Kiera, the best you can do is top three. It’s the

Kiera (19:57)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (19:57)

best you can do. So you still only have a one in three chance that somebody’s gonna pick you. So

Kiera (20:02)

True.

Sean Hamel (20:03)

33%.

So if I can give them emotional cues to pick you in addition to them finding you, that’s where most of this falls off here is everybody’s focused on being seen. Nobody talks about how do I get you chosen? How do I get you to be the one that they pick? And that’s using the emotional cues. That’s using neuroscience and using trust and safety. Same thing that happens with the patient referral. We’re doing the same thing with messaging, with imagery. Instead of saying, hey, $99 new patient lightning special.

Run, hey, like in the spring, we will run you know, you bought the dress, give her the smile, prom 2026 whitening specials, 99. And it’s not

Kiera (20:44)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (20:45)

that the message is different, it’s just it resonates different with people because it’s fitting into their life. It’s not transactional where they’re having like burn mental calories to figure that out. And the average person in that sequence, like, we’ve done this long enough. Yes, I it does work. Putting yourself out there works, but it’s not just about putting yourself out there, it’s doing it strategically.

Right. But when you do say that in the spring and graduation’s coming and proms coming and all, a parent whose kid is going to prom and they see a ninety-nine dollar whitening special is not gonna have it resonate the way the other ad does. And that’s

Kiera (21:16)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (21:17)

just a very high level example of how to do it. But it is a mix of doing the things that everybody’s doing. But it’s once you get there, how do you then get somebody to pick you? Cause you can pull the root like you’re talking about pulling the lever.

Kiera (21:29)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (21:29)

You can start

to have control over that with the appropriate messaging and leaning into the fact that most people are afraid.

Kiera (21:35)

No, I think that’s great, Sean. Thank you for letting me play devil’s advocate because I think people

Sean Hamel (21:39)

Sure, yeah.

Kiera (21:39)

feel that like, okay, I’m gonna go do this, but then they feel like the rejection piece or that people aren’t coming.

Sean Hamel (21:44)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (21:45)

And you’re right, I like I do this when we’re presenting cases and talking to treatment coordinators and consultors, and it’s like no one’s buying that implant screwed into their head. Like just fun fact,

Sean Hamel (21:56)

Yeah.

Kiera (21:57)

no one’s buying that. But what they are buying is the ability to eat steak. What they are buying is the

Sean Hamel (22:01)

Exactly.

Kiera (22:01)

ability to smile to their grandkids.

Like

it is an emotional lever that people I’m like, no person is buying. Like, I want white teeth, but why do I want white teeth? Like I want to look good. Like I had a lady who was like ninety and she went for full ortho people like, why’d offer it to her? I’m like, ‘Cause she said she wanted to look good, like good in her coffin. That is a motivator for her at ninety

Sean Hamel (22:19)

Right. Yeah.

Kiera (22:20)

to get her like no one is buying, like we don’t go and we don’t buy certain things because we’re looking for like I’m not buying like there was even a girl who talked about like we don’t buy perfume for ourselves, we buy it for other people.

Like, yes, I want to smell good, but it’s because other people are going to experience that. Like that’s why we buy things is for other people, for us to feel a certain way. and I definitely think it’s like you said, you can do the same tactic. It’s just making sure that we’re hitting it on the the zone that’s gonna resonate. So I’m curious, Sean. Go ahead.

Sean Hamel (22:47)

See, and and you nailed

it really quick because that’s that’s what you just said is a phenomenal like follow up. That’s the problem, Kiera, is you get it, you’ve done it, the marketers that are getting paid the big sums aren’t doing it. So the

Kiera (23:01)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (23:02)

doctor will go out and do it on their social media themselves and put themselves out there. But the marketing company, if you go look at the landing pages for the implants, none of it’s there. None of that’s there.

Kiera (23:11)

Totally.

Sean Hamel (23:12)

And if they call and they say, Hey, I I have this patient.

That I wanna I wanna highlight this that, you know, they’re eating steak again and they’re excited. well, we don’t do that. You have the bronze package here. We don’t do that. We don’t do we don’t do custom. That’s the problem. When I talk about everybody

Kiera (23:25)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (23:26)

looks the same, the marketing companies are built to where you have a package A, B, or C. A,

Kiera (23:31)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (23:31)

B, or C doesn’t work because this kind of stuff isn’t in there. That’s the issue with why most of it doesn’t work. A lot of people get it and they understand it, they just don’t know how to make it all fit together to actually get ROI.

And the companies

Kiera (23:43)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (23:44)

are not focused on messaging or conversion. It’s all about site visits. It’s all about, like you said, smoke and mirrors. That’s what the metrics are about constantly. If it worked, ever like somebody at some point would get results that they are excited about. You know, if you go into a room with a hundred doctors, you say, How many of you have had a bad marketing experience? Almost all of their hands go up. And it’s not that again, the marketers aren’t nefarious. It’s just they’re charging full fees to do half the work.

Kiera (24:10)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (24:11)

Getting

in front of people’s half the job. You gotta get them in the chair. You gotta qualify

Kiera (24:14)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (24:15)

them to make sure it’s somebody the practice wants to see. And that’s where the story piece starts to unlock is the conversion.

Kiera (24:21)

So if I’m a dentist listening today,

Sean Hamel (24:23)

Mm.

Kiera (24:24)

I’m like, Sean, I like this. I’ve taken notes. I like you, but you’re a marketer. So of course I’m gonna like you. You’re selling me on liking you. What are my tactical pieces that I can take from why marketing doesn’t work and put it into action? What are some of the things that I can start doing today? whether I have a bronze, silver, gold, whatever package I’ve got, like I want patience. I need patience. That’s why I’m listening to you guys today. I am obsessed with this, I’ve struggled with this.

I’m the person who just raised my hand. I have struggled with this in the past. What are the tactical? Because you know, Sean, I’m very tactical on every podcast. Like, people need to be able to leave here of like,

Sean Hamel (24:57)

Yeah.

Kiera (24:58)

what can they do to go make their lives and their practice better? What would you say would be like steps one, two, or three, or like one, two or three items that they could go implement that truly would start to help them in a way? I could call it like turning the Titanic. Like, how do I get

Sean Hamel (25:11)

Yeah.

Kiera (25:11)

this to actually start making a a shift rather than just continuing to do what I’ve always been doing?

Sean Hamel (25:16)

Yeah, one of the easiest ways here is you the about you page and about the practice page. Like if it’s super clinical and super generic, if it’s five paragraphs about how smart you are and three sentences about who you are, just flip that and start talking about who you are. You don’t have to it doesn’t mean you have to show pictures of your kids and all the things like you don’t have to go that deep with it, but just talk about hobbies and interests. Be somebody that they can build a connection point with because again, remember that they’re operating from self-preservation most of the time.

They’re not looking at you the way that they’re shopping for a TV. It’s totally different when

Kiera (25:48)

It’s true.

Sean Hamel (25:49)

it comes to dentistry. And so start with your bio page and talk more about who you are and understand that people already expect that you’re smart and you work on teeth and you’re capable. They already expect that. So just think about tail lights at a car dealership. Nobody cares, right? It’s important, but they already know that you’re smart and capable. You are a doctor who is practicing, they know that. So start there. And the same thing with about the practice, lean into the patient experience.

But lean in in a way that it makes the patients the hero of the story. I don’t know if anybody’s ever read Building a Story Ran by Donald Miller. It’s a phenomenal book.

Kiera (26:20)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (26:21)

You can’t take it though and plug it directly into dentistry. You have to tweak it a little bit. But making the patient outcome, like you said, the even the patient that’s like, I want to look good my coffin, that is why she’s coming in. You don’t have to tell her the ins and outs of what you’re gonna do to her. You don’t have to sit there and try to tell her how smart you are and all the courses that you went to to be able, she’s already sold.

All you have to do is talk to her about, hey, you are gonna look better, feel better, get more matches on Tinder, you know, look amazing at your high school graduation, whatever it is, shift your messaging to the outcome for the patient and you will start to see the marketing unlock. That’s the easiest thing that you can do. And it’s, you know, like you said, I have the gold, silver, bronze. The marketing companies are not gonna help you do this. So that’s one of the easiest things you can start to do. The other thing here where practices can start doing this is through their social media. So stop.

You don’t doesn’t mean you have to post constantly about yourself. It doesn’t mean that you have to post about like National Chocolate Chip Cookie Day or any of that stuff.

Kiera (27:15)

Yes.

Sean Hamel (27:16)

But just go out and be a member of the community. Go out and if there are restaurants or little coffee shops or anywhere that you go or the team goes or whatever, start tagging those businesses and build reciprocity, which is you know another principle of persuasion

Kiera (27:30)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (27:31)

if you read read Dr. Cialdini’s book. but you can use other businesses like if you

If you think about a dental practice as being highly valuable in the community. So not, hey, we need to get more followers, but hey, I have 250 people that live in the community that follow us. That’s valuable to other businesses.

Kiera (27:50)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (27:50)

So if there’s a coffee shop that I like and I go out and I tag them in a post and say, My favorite, my favorite stop on my way into the office, and you tag that business, what is that business gonna do? Share you back, right? Well

Kiera (28:02)

Gonna like you. Exactly.

Sean Hamel (28:05)

And they’re gonna share you back in their real or story if you post one of them. And so you can start to use other businesses to not only build commonality, but build out your brand. Like gyms are phenomenal for this. You have health conscious people that care about what they look like. Dentistry, like that’s that’s a great spot to be for dental practices. Just start being a part of the community, build that kind of commonality, leverage your community to get in front of people in an organic way and stop just trying to do what every marketer is doing.

Which is really generic, really clinical, you know, quality pain-free dentistry, the team’s standing by the front desk, the doctor has their arms crossed. Everybody’s tired of that stuff. It’s not super hard to pivot this way. Just be a be a human, be a part of the community, be social, and realize that other businesses around you can l leverage benefit from you highlighting them because even if you have a small follower account, they all live in that city or that area. And you share them, they’ll share you back.

See if you can do fun things together with them. But it’s a unique way to build more of a connection. And especially in this day of day and age with AI and just the amount of you just get inundated by marketing anytime you go anywhere. If you can get somebody to go through and they see your ad and they think like you were talking about, like eating steak, if they hit if they hit that, the next time that they think about that, even if it’s like ten hours later at night, they’re gonna think about you. They’re gonna remember

Kiera (29:25)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (29:26)

you. How many ads do you remember since you got up this morning?

Kiera (29:30)

The answer is none. There’s too many.

Sean Hamel (29:31)

Right, because it’s just the same stuff.

Right. And so as you start to leverage this stuff, and it does seem like, you know, with dentistry Kiera, it’s not like monumental shifts, it’s little dial turns. And like, you know, it’s not just getting in front of people, it’s how do I get them to remember me? Those are the kind of things that any practice can start doing is just humanize it. Talk about who you are, why they should pick you, and it’s not where you went to school, it’s just

Hey, I’m you know, this is who I am. I have kids, I work in the community, I coach little league, like whatever it may be. That’s the stuff that people can resonate with. And then use your community, use social media to be social. And those are two

Kiera (30:09)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (30:09)

things that any practice can start doing immediately and they’ll start to see results.

Kiera (30:14)

I

love that, Sean. Thank you for sharing that because that does seem doable. And as you were saying that, I thought about there’s a dentist that I watch. I knew I actually worked for his dad and now he’s in residency. And it’s interesting because he lost his wife to suicide and he’s very open about talking about it. but I and that was like why I started attracting. I mean, I know this kid, I knew all the things going through and whatnot. gosh, you’re old when you call like somebody in residency a kid, like shoot, that just connected. But regardless, he just posts about like

The dice on toothbrush just came up and he was just posting about it. He will post some things about dental. He’ll also post about like, hey, like live life, or like, hey, this is me going in for like pediatric surgery today. And I actually really love following him. And I think kudos to him. He’s in residency. He doesn’t even have a practice. But he’s building a brand of who he is as a human and he knows he’s not gonna get everybody. But that’s the dentist that I remember out of all the ones I see. And he’s called Toothjack

Sean Hamel (31:06)

Mm.

Kiera (31:06)

Tooth Doc Jack. I his name is his name’s Jackson.

And I thought was really clever of how he put it together. So he’s branded as a dentist. but and he has scrubs and he doesn’t. He’s like, this is me walking home from class today. These are some of the things I thought of. And what I’ve noticed is people want to follow people and like see into their lives. Like I think that that’s what social media is, is getting to know people as humans. And we were talking the other day and I was like, Isn’t it creepy? Like the girls at the gym were showing a picture that they made by AI of them at a karaoke thing. They didn’t go to it, but they were like teasing their friends and the picture looked so real.

And we were talking about we’re like, how crazy is it that we don’t know what’s real or not real anymore? And I think that that’s where people are craving this, like, I want to know you as a real person and I want to know that this wasn’t done by AI because that’s what I actually want to be paying for. I don’t want to be paying for AI. I don’t want to be paying for mass marketed things. I want to be paying for that. So many people have told me the reason that they choose Dental A Team or like they’ve listened to me on the podcast. People now applying for our company watch my video on our website and they’re like, I loved your video so much. I love who you are and I want to work with you.

Sean Hamel (32:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kiera (32:07)

And so

I will say that even beyond just patients, it also can be a great way for you to attract team members to your practice. But I think, Sean, there are pieces and I love that you made it tactical because it felt so like a little woo-y. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, how do I?

Sean Hamel (32:18)

Yeah.

Kiera (32:19)

But I love the I love the cross collab of your communities. Guys, you are part of the community. Do you how hard it is to be a Chonda is like when you’re across the globe, I’m not really part of any community. I’m part of like your community-ish. I’m part of the dentist community, but there is no community where I’m gonna tag a local coffee shop that’s gonna apply to a doctor in North Carolina.

But what will apply is bring on cool collaborators like Sean that you guys are all excited about that we can hear. That’s what’s going to drive you here. But for you, you are so lucky. You work in a community. So leverage those relationships, leverage that. I think that’s a brilliant idea. And I hope people today take notes, they execute, and they realize that you as a human is what people are craving the most. They’re not craving the standardized pieces. And you’re right, everything does look the same. So you actually have a great opportunity right now, like pivot a little bit differently and it’ll probably stand out quite quickly.

in

a really positive way. So Sean, thanks for that. Those are my like wraps. What other wraps do you have

Sean Hamel (33:05)

Yeah. Of course.

Kiera (33:08)

as we wrap up?

Sean Hamel (33:09)

No, I appreciate you. again, I know this is a lot to throw at people in half an hour. This is a t I do a two and a half hour presentation on this. and and

Kiera (33:17)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (33:18)

the goal it’s not to demonize anybody or anything. It’s just, you know, the industry is broken. we can’t help everybody. I mean, that’s why I started speaking and and stuff, because this has been so successful for the offices that we work with and so many dentists largely are struggling.

And you know, this isn’t a sales pitch. You can go do this stuff on your own. A lot of times, Kiera, when I started speaking about this, doctors would hear me talk and they would go and they would call their marketing company the next day. And that’s where they’d be like, hey, we don’t do that. Or hey, you know, we don’t do custom. We can

Kiera (33:48)

Sure.

Sean Hamel (33:49)

why am I paying you $5,000 a month then if you’re not

Kiera (33:52)

Ha ha ha.

Sean Hamel (33:52)

going to help me grow? Right. And so it’s really become more of a passion for me to educate dental practitioners on here’s why the messaging’s off. Here’s how easy it is to fix it.

And I love the fact that you push back and we’re like, hey, does this really work? Yeah, like it does. and it it’s it’s well, well, and it’s not

Kiera (34:07)

Hi, I’m Kiera. Nice to meet you.

Sean Hamel (34:10)

for any other reason, just that like people are never not gonna be afraid of the dentist. It’s one of the things with AI too, the adoption with AI, and that’s another podcast we can do, but people don’t trust it. And so when you

Kiera (34:20)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (34:22)

add that layer to it, it’s just a recipe for disaster. But these principles work.

It’s not a gimmick, it’s not a sales pitch, it’s just how human beings are wired when they’re afraid of something. If you lean into that mindset and understand that the average person is at least a little like maybe they’re not petrified, Kiera, but it’s like the first day of school nerves where you’re just kind of like, yeah, and then you go in and you meet your teacher and you find your locker and you start to calm down. Same

Kiera (34:47)

Mm.

Sean Hamel (34:48)

kind of thing. And you can replicate that by giving people emotional cues on the front side. So when you pay for SEO and you show up high, you also get the the butt in your chair.

Which is the big part that everybody seems to miss and nobody talks about. Hey, I rank really well, but I need patience to actually come in and spend money.

Kiera (35:05)

I think my takeaway from all of this today was it’s not so much how do I get you seen, it’s how do I get you chosen. And I think even that becomes a very different strategy. Like I’m going out onto the field, like I want to be chosen, I don’t just want to be seen. that definitely was like my anchoring point. So, Sean, if people love you, they to hang out more with you, like tell them how they can connect with you guys. What do you guys specifically do? Are you a full force marketing agency? Do you build websites? Do you do social media? Do you do all that?

do just help them build out the strategy plan, kind of give them a little bit more and how they can connect with you.

Sean Hamel (35:38)

Absolutely. And this is actually called the chosen approach. That’s what I call this presentation. I have a book that’s coming that goes over how to do this. so yeah.

Kiera (35:45)

That’s awesome. I’m glad I pulled out the right line.

Sean Hamel (35:49)

Well, hopefully, I mean that’s it, you know, that is kind of the the best summation of the issue that’s that’s facing everybody. But you can always get in touch with me on the social media, Story Base Sean. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook. Art of Dental Marketing is just ArtOfDentalMarketing.com.

We have a new division of the company that’s launching called ADM Express, which brings the core tenets of what we do, the wireframing, the messaging, but it’s at a price point that’s that’s driven by our AI agent. His name is Alfred DDS, but he does

Kiera (36:17)

Mm-hmm.

Sean Hamel (36:18)

a lot of the customer service and the and ideation and things. but we do we do websites, SEO, we do all of that stuff, video, we help practices tell unique stories. We do ground marketing, we do general practice consulting, we can help with appointment setting, we can help with

you know, we can even help with like acquiring talent. So if practices are looking for hygienists or associates or anything, we don’t do placement, but we can help them advertise for that. Really anything a dental practice needs to where the doctor

Kiera (36:46)

Yeah.

Sean Hamel (36:46)

can make more money and be chairside less and grow into the practice they’ve always wanted. we have a service or solution or a partner that can help them with that. And so we really are a full service growth agency. I w really wouldn’t even call us a marketing agency anymore.

there’s really not anybody like us in that, in that regard. But we just from websites and logo design and brand design to strategic messaging to hey, how do I get the gym next door to partner with us on stuff? You know, we help with literally everything necessary for a practice to grow.

Kiera (37:18)

Awesome. No, and Sean, thank you so much for that. So, guys, go check it out. If this resonated with you, go check it out. And I hope that you just recognize there’s so many different ways for you to connect with people, connect with humans. that’s what we’re all about. I believe that the the human experience is about being connected to people rather than just being sold to people. So go connect, change it up, take one of these, implement it today. Reach out to Sean. If we can help you connect you in any way, we’ll happily help. reach out [email protected].

Guys, go make today the best day. Sean, thank you for being on the podcast. Truly appreciate you being here. Of course.

Sean Hamel (37:50)

Thank you, Kiera. Appreciate you.

Kiera (37:52)

Of course. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening. And I’ll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.