Episode : How to Reduce Overhead Without Cutting Team Members

Podcast Description

Does your P&L team cost feel high? Tiff and Dana provide insight on how to reduce your overhead besides scaling back team members. There could be easy solutions, from cleaning up definitions and job descriptions in your ops manual, to facing the numbers when it comes to debt, and many more.

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Transcript:

The Dental A Team (00:00)

Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am here with you today ⁓ with Dana. Dana, you know, is one of my favorite humans on earth. We are starting our Monday with you guys. And I know it may not be Monday while you’re listening to this, but you know these are pre-recorded, these aren’t live. That’s not a shock to you. So we record these on Mondays and Fridays. And Dana has been so gracious to share her Monday morning with us. Dana, how are you on this beautiful day?

DAT-Dana (00:27)

I’m doing pretty good. I know I’m loving the weather right now. As you know, I’m like a sunshine lizard, right? So I love the sunshine we’re getting right now. And I love some extra tip time on a Monday. It’s a great start to the week.

The Dental A Team (00:30)

beautiful.

I agree, I agree. was like, yesterday I was like, oh gosh, what is tomorrow? know, like, because I had prep the week before, I think we all kind of prep, but then Sunday you’re like, wait a second though, what was that again? I’ve had two days to forget what I’m supposed to be doing tomorrow. And I checked, I’m like, oh yeah, podcasting with Dana is gonna be so great. So we’re here today with you and Dana, this one’s a really fun topic. I know you and I, notoriously, if anyone goes back into the archives and listens to the other 5,000,

It feels as though it’s been 5,000 podcasts on operations manuals that we’ve done. That’s just Dana’s fun girl for that. But today is team related but less about training and kind of operations manually kind of things. And I think it’s just a really fun version of a team aspect. And I say that because this is coming at it from a business standpoint. I think you guys all know that Dental A Team focuses on profit.

and profitability, but we focus first and foremost on happy people and having a fantastic business that can support your personal life, but then also having a fantastic business that supports an awesome team. And so being team focused and being people focused first, we truly believe that that’s what creates a business that’s sustainable over a lifetime and gets that profit for you. If we went profit first, not the book, we love the book. If we went profit first and never the people,

I think we would just be doing you a disservice. So today is all about how to get profitable, how to be profitable without sacrificing the team. And Dana, I know you and I, I think our whole company is really, really strong in this belief, but you and I specifically very, very strongly believe that treating the team right and not looking at the team for the cuts in the overhead is, that’s how we start. So I’m gonna.

Just pick your brain some today, Dana. First of all, what are you seeing today? It’s 2026, recording this. It’s close to the beginning of the year. We’re about almost done with Q1, honestly. So I’m flying by, but we’re getting towards the end of Q1. But with that, we’ve had some financials. I don’t know why, but in my world, financials are hard to come by this year. I love you CPAs, and I’m just hoping that we can get a little bit better towards Q2.

But so far in the financials, what are you starting to see and what did you see out of 2025 with your clients? What kind of trends were you noticing?

DAT-Dana (03:14)

Yeah, think ⁓ financials, know expenses going up in different areas, a lot of that expense does come from team members. A lot of my conversations right now are like how do I show my team appreciation? How do I create things for my team when it comes to pay increase raises, things like that. ⁓

and still keep my payroll within where it should be. So a lot of team pieces are part of these financial conversations, I think even pretty heavy in 2026.

The Dental A Team (03:46)

Yeah, totally agree with you. I’ve seen those same things and towards the end of the year too, was like Christmas bonuses. I know you and I worked, we talked about it. So I know, I know at least you and I did. I’m sure the rest of the team did too, but we talked about it towards the beginning of last year, I think on a podcast of making sure that we were getting our clients prepped to give bonuses. So they’re saving some little acorns every month over in a bucket for that. So hopefully it didn’t hit them, but it still looks ugly on the PNL no matter what, you pull wherever you’re pulling that money from. So.

I totally agree. And then I do think wage increases. I mean, if we compare 2018, 2019 to today, drastic difference. And I know, I think in our brains, it doesn’t feel like COVID was that long ago. It feels like it was yesterday, but gosh, like 2017, 2018, 2019, those were the years of like dentistry. Dentistry was really doing well for team’s sake at least. It was easy to find people. You could pay people whatever you wanted. Like people really worked for their dollar.

And then you flash forward now it’s been, gosh, almost seven, eight years since that time period. when we, in dentistry, when it comes, and this is just my opinion, when it comes to pay and team pay, I think that we are all still very much stuck in seven, eight years, nine years ago, like time period. And we forget because COVID, the emphasis on COVID and the emphasis on the

the world as it is today and all of our, gosh, attention is being so distracted by all of that stuff that it’s almost like that time just disappeared. We didn’t live that time. so team pay wise, we’re still stuck back there, but the inflation and the reality is if you compared 2007 to 2017,

You would never pay someone what we were paying in 2007 in 2017. Those, those pays would be so different. But I think we’re trying to like transplant that still today of the gold, the golden years, the good old days of what money was back then, forgetting that that much time has elapsed in the middle. And we’re just truly not caught up yet in my opinion. So I don’t know, Dana, is that just me? Do you feel that that we just like, we lost years. like just forward jumped.

DAT-Dana (06:07)

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like it was kind of like a time warp and I feel like especially in dentistry because I don’t think dentistry hurt a ton as far as what we were able to produce. But I think that there was a big time warp when it came to salary increases and things like that. And I’m talking about that a lot on my calls because you know, yes, is it astounding that we’re paying people in the dentistry where what we are right now. But again, I always say look at your area, what is fair for your area, what is competitive for your area because these team members bring value.

The Dental A Team (06:13)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (06:39)

that is associated to the salary that we’re looking at and while yes it has made a big jump I think sometimes it’s just shocking how specific areas too have seen bigger jumps than others ⁓ but I do feel like we kind of got lost in time there for a while.

The Dental A Team (06:55)

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. was having a conversation the other day with someone about dentistry and he is like newly exposed to dentistry and a financial aspect. And I’ve been in dentistry, you’ve been in dentistry like it was in high school, right? We’ve been in dentistry since we were kids and it’s kind of just what we know. But watching someone come into dentistry from the outside as an adult, as a professional, as a business person, he’s like, this is kind of wild. the way that, and he’s like, why don’t we just like.

focus on quality people paying value for quality people. He’s like, I feel like these practices might be able to hire less people to do the job because you’re hiring quality people paying them well to do the job instead of hiring two, three people to do one job. that’s another tangent. Goes into overhead for sure because I think that that’s the space where

When you’re talking about overhead, when we’re looking at P &Ls and we see this 33 % to 35 % marker on team cost, and our standards and dental industry standards across the country still say it should be 28 to 30%, but now we’re seeing 33 to 35 % California, it’s like 42 % sometimes. That makes, I think, business owners and CPAs and professionals go, wait a second.

you’re high and you have too many team members or you’re too high, you’re paying too much. And the reality is for us, like no, there’s a missing piece and possibly, I mean, I’ve scaled back teams before that it’s like, gosh, you do have three people doing one job because their jobs are so jumbled. So clearing up definitions and job descriptions go back to our operations manual days. Like clearing those pieces up, I think solves a lot of ⁓

team capacity issues and overpaying, whether you get rid of team members or not, them doing their prospective jobs helps to make them, it’s just clearer. We’re more effective, there’s less overtime, there’s more productivity when we’re super clear on our position. So that does help, but I’ve I’ve cleaned some of that up, but then Dana, when we go in and practices, doctors are like, I’m heavy in my team. Are you?

Or can we look somewhere else? where are other areas that where, like, what are your markers? I know what mine are. Like, what are your markers? You look in and you’re like, okay, team is there, but where are these other pieces? What are you looking for when you’re trying to reduce overhead without touching the team?

DAT-Dana (09:32)

So usually when I’m looking at that first and foremost, wanna make sure, right, production and collections are healthy. That’s the first thing that I look at. Is it just with our team we are under producing, under collecting? ⁓ So that’s honestly and truly the first piece that I look at. ⁓ And then I’m looking at anything that isn’t a fixed cost.

Right anything outside of the team that is something that we can do anything about do we have budgets for CE? Do we have budgets for? Supplies have we negotiated labs so I’m looking at any variable cost in the practice and considering that first because typically when it comes to team like I know I can get them more efficient and I know that likes that’s usually what the issue is if I say do you have right people in the right seats? Do you love your team members? Do you have team members that like are really bought in and value the practice and if that answer is yes, then we’ve just got to find a fish

somewhere else. So those are just the heavy hitters that I look at initially.

The Dental A Team (10:25)

I love what you said there. I do the same thing and it just like lights me up to be able to chat with a doctor, look at a schedule and be like, well, for the hours of operation, you’re staffed for the number of hygienists, the number of dental assistants you need for a full schedule, the number of operatories you have, the number of providers that you have for front office, that you are adequately staffed.

but your staffing cost is high, that immediately tells me we’re not utilizing your schedule correctly, right? Or it’s time to drop some insurance companies. Maybe we just need to get your fees higher to accommodate because the reality, Dana, and I think this is exactly what you’re saying with right people, right seat, is that no matter whether you’re a producing team member or not, meaning hygienist and associate doctor, it’s very easy from a business standpoint to be like, yeah, they paid for themselves. My hygienist is at.

three to three point times their rate of pay. My associate is making me money, they’re paying for themselves, but then you look at a treatment coordinator or a dental assistant and you’re like, well, am I over, how do you see that? This is how you see that. People should be paying for themselves and it should be very clear because it should reflect in your overhead and you should be able to say with the right treatment coordinator, my schedule is freaking stellar. With the right billing coordinator, my collections is 98 to 100%.

all of the time and so the money that I need, my bare minimum and then some that I need coming into my account is accurately reflected on my P &L from QuickBooks. when you say Dana, the other like fixed, the non-fixed costs, right? So I love that and I think Dana, something that I’ve noticed that a lot of doctors get stuck on is this, the Anophis Mills, which is wild because these things have been around for like,

I don’t know, 20 years now, it feels like they’ve been around for so long, but there’s still such an area of they’re either really working for you or they’re really holding you back still in dentistry, which is crazy to me. But what are you seeing when it comes to that and what are you suggesting doctors do?

DAT-Dana (12:16)

Are you?

you

I do feel like that for a lot of practices still just a big source of inefficiency. So I think that it really is like timing things, know what you can side book when it comes to meals, know how long pieces are going to take, know when it is more beneficial to just have the patient come back at a different time. And so I think that’s kind of where we struggle, but yet doctors really want to use them because obviously they’re paying for them, right? So it’s an open expense, but in a lot of offices, it does take time and it is an area where we are

The Dental A Team (12:38)

Yeah.

DAT-Dana (13:02)

inefficient and we’re just inefficient with the scheduling of it not necessarily the utilizing of it.

The Dental A Team (13:08)

Absolutely, I completely agree. And I love them because it will reduce lab costs. But I think something actually that I haven’t just thought of is, I don’t know why I’ve never thought of this before, something that we don’t account for, at least I don’t, we account for the debt. So we have, you when we run through your P &Ls and we plug them into our sheet, we’ve got your true overhead, your top overhead, your pay, your debt services, and then what’s remaining is your actual true profit.

But Dana, I’m sitting here thinking, well, we’re paying monthly on this debt. we’re saying where I was, what I was about to say was that it can and will eventually reduce your lab overhead. But realistically, that debt should be accounted in that percentage for the labs. And I’ve never thought of that before to like accurately reflect the true cost of labs. But I think that we’re always finding another layer, you guys. I think that’s like another layer that we could really help our.

our practices to be able to see what are you truly spending in the labs? And I had a conversation last week with a client. It was actually really fun. It’s a husband and wife that I chat with. And we’re always talking about their finances. It’s very important. We’ve done a ton of work over the last two and a half, almost three years, to reduce their overhead by legitimately almost 20 % at this point. ⁓ But we’ve got debt.

And he’s like, OK, well, we’ve got to add this. And we’ve got to this. This is our new BAM. we’re like, yeah, we’re going through it. And his wife in the background is like, when do we stop just doing more? And she’s like, can we pay off some of this debt? And I said, you know, honestly, you’ve got $11,000 a month going out to debt. If we strategically start paying that down, because they do have profit, so they are saving in buckets. And if we strategically start paying that down,

Now that’s 11 grand additional every month that you’re pouring into buckets. So just like our personal costs, I think we do really well from the third party perspective seeing treat this like you do your personal banking as long as your personal banking is in line, right? Like you’re paying off your debt first, kind of like the Dave Ramsey effect, right? Like why are we not Dave Ramseying our businesses?

but we’re doing it in our personal life, but then it’s so easy as a dentist to see the new scanner and be like, well, that’s better than the one that I have. I’m almost done paying that one off. So tech, it’s like girl math, right? Like I paid for the dog grooming $200, it was worth it. On Saturday with cash that I was supposed to deposit months ago, that was out of, like it was already out of my account, right? Like it was already gone. So I was like, oh, it’s basically free. We’re doing that with, I said my dog grooming was quote unquote free because it was money I hadn’t accounted for anymore.

I think we do that with our purchases in dentistry. We’re like, well, this scanner’s already paid off, or this one’s almost paid off. So technically, I’m not really adding. I’m just continuing instead of getting rid of it. And it’s like turning in your car when you’ve just paid it off for a new car because you’re used to having a car payment. So that was a long tangent on the lab space. But I think it was all pretty relevant. And I think, Dana, for us, that’s a

Valid space to be able to say yes, you’ve decreased your lab costs with the mill and with the scanner But if we add back that debt payment right now your lab percentage is actually at this

DAT-Dana (16:32)

Yep. Yeah. And I think that that’s something like when I’m talking to doctors about purchasing these things or looking at these things, those are honest conversations that we have to have. Okay. You’re absolutely right. That will save you on your lab. How many crowns do you have to do to see a savings? Right. And, and are you prepared to do that many?

The Dental A Team (16:44)

Yes.

DAT-Dana (16:49)

right? And how do we fit that many in your schedule? And so I think that those are conversations that yeah, like we have to look at those things because honestly, and truly, if we don’t do enough crowns to save on our lab space, right? And then, again, it’s like then we’re talking about team members and it’s like, well, we wait, right? Just just wait a second, because we made this decision. So now we just have to get the team to be efficient to hit a number of crowns that we need to actually make it lower.

The Dental A Team (17:04)

That’s just thinking that.

DAT-Dana (17:14)

lab costs. I think these are conversations that we have routinely with clients. think these aren’t always things that dentists in general think about when making those purchases because yeah, they look at the lab savings and they look at the fact that they get to grow what they offer. And these things are exciting. We totally understand that. But I think it is looking at all those pieces and saying also does this make financial sense?

The Dental A Team (17:37)

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I was thinking too as you’re speaking on like efficiencies and how many crowns will it take. Also, we forget how much time does it take from a human. So as we’re being efficient with the schedule, you’re also losing an assistant to go mill that crown, to go design it and to mill it. So there’s like 30 to 45 minutes unless, I mean, there’s a lot of practices you can cut it down and they’re getting much quicker. So whatever, we’ll say 40 minutes that you’ve lost someone.

that would otherwise be able to do the next patient. And that doesn’t get accounted for in the employee cost where it’s just a shift. It’s just a shift. And being able to see all of those pieces and those aspects and make those confident decisions is massive. And then how long will it take to pay those things down at the cost, the fee, the rate that you’re paying because realistically that, again, is your lab cost.

and you would be paying a lab for sure, but over the long run, is it going to be a big enough savings is a big consideration. And if you already have the mill, start thinking that way. Like, okay, well, what is my true lab cost? then supplies, I mean, everybody knows supplies and we’re not in the, I think there was that massive increase, right? COVID with the PPE, like that got wild and we were at like 8%, but I’m starting to see people, like you guys are back down to the five, 6%. So I don’t think that that’s.

huge space but realistically the lab fees, the same doctor, ⁓ sometimes I’m like ⁓ how did we get GP dentists? How are we at a $15,000 lab bill? He’s like well I like their work and I’m like so do I and then we need to find something cheaper.

DAT-Dana (19:22)

⁓ But yet. Here

we are talking about this number every month.

The Dental A Team (19:27)

Yes,

yes, and I said that’s fine, then we need a drop insurance company. So I think those are the conversations and it’s just so easy to jump to say we’re over staffed or we’re paying too much money or we’re doing too much overtime. When I see practices that have overtime, I’m like, okay, why? One, overtime is more expensive than another human. So are we understaffed and we need to divvy some more things out? And two,

Overtime is a huge indicator that we’re inefficient somewhere. So it’s either our schedule is constantly running behind because we’re ineffectively scheduling, or we’ve got, again, like overlapping duties and just chaos going on when there’s confusion in your brain, you’re slower. And so when things are clear and clean, you work more effectively, you’re more productive, and you move on things faster.

Huge spaces, huge spaces, but going back, I think to straight to the beginning, Dana, I love it. The first thing doctors for you to look at is exactly what Dana said. Production and collections, are you producing enough because you need the staffing for the schedule you should have. If you don’t have the staffing and the schedule comes first, you’re gonna be in overtime. You’ve gotta have the staffing. I’m not saying go hire a million people because in five years you want this.

Make sure you’ve got enough people to run the schedule that you want. Make sure that you’re being productive, that it’s getting on the schedule and that on the back end it’s getting collected. If you’re not getting enough new patients for the production, like all of those things go into it and that’s why we make you guys fill out scorecards and watch trends and see it all in one space is because all of those things play a massive role and the first place it’s gonna show up on your overhead scorecard is your employee cost. It’s just.

the truth. That’s the first place it’s going to pop up and then from there you’ll see all of the little ones but it’s your biggest expense.

DAT-Dana (21:27)

Yeah, and I think that what you said is and I talk about this all the time, like especially when we get a doctor that comes in and really is cash flow that is the reason that they come and it’s I can slice and dice your P &L a hundred different ways but at the end of the day most of the things that I can slice and dice are low-hanging fruit and the biggest impact that we can make on those overhead costs and those percentages is to produce and collect more. Hands down, bottom line.

The Dental A Team (21:51)

Yep.

Yeah. Which either means more efficient schedule and getting more people on the schedule or raising your fees and dropping insurance companies. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. All right, guys. If you don’t know how to read your P &L, by all means, reach out. We have all kinds of, you know, videos and podcasts and all kinds of other things that we can share with you. And we are always happy.

DAT-Dana (22:01)

Yeah.

The Dental A Team (22:19)

to help you in the best ways possible. So first and foremost, action item, go read your P &L, go figure it out, go see where your expenses are at, be really familiar with your bank accounts, with your P &Ls, with your debt services, treat it as though it’s your personal money, because realistically, you guys, it is. You’re a business owner, it is your personal money, so treat it as though it matters. And go look at that, look at your production, and by that we mean is your schedule efficient and actually productive?

Do you have 90 to 95 % of the time at the end of the day, you’re hitting goal and you’re like, that was awesome. Or are you 90 to 95 % of the time, like, what did I do all day? How is this my life? I’m so stressed out. You tell us, go do those two things. Love on your team. Make sure you have right people, right seat. You guys, ⁓ again, a million podcasts to discuss all of that stuff. Go find them. [email protected]. We will find them for you and send them to you. You just tell us.

Dana, anything else you can think of aside from learning your P &L forwards and backwards, looking at production collections first and then looking deeper and reaching out to us?

DAT-Dana (23:26)

No, I think you hit all three of the big ones.

The Dental A Team (23:29)

I love it. Awesome guys. Okay, go do the things you guys. It is way easier than it sounds and it honestly is way more fun than it sounds. I Dana and I have both come full circle on our love of P &Ls and numbers and being able to find the little secret sauces here and there. go do the things, reach out [email protected] when you’re ready. We are here to help you forever. We’re always here. And you guys drop us a five star review below. Let us know.

how this goes for you with your P &L review. Let us know how helpful this was. And again, go love on your team. Dana, thank you so much for being here with me today and we’ll catch you next time, guys.