Episode : #1,217: Would You Rehire Everyone On Your Team?

Podcast Description

As practices grow and new people filter in, it’s normal to want to measure each member of your team against your current goals versus where they were when first hired. Tiff and Nikki talk about assessing positions from a bird’s eye view, working with someone who’s stalled out in individual growth, differentiating emotions from the practical, and more.

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:00)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are excited to be here with you today. I am just putting this out there. Nikki and I have tried to record this podcast now three

Nikki Mack (00:09)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (00:10)

times, and we are excited to get this information to you guys and hoping that our network works with us full time today. Nikki, thank you for being flexible, for being someone that will just jump in and for loving on Dental A Team and your clients as much as you do. I value and appreciate you so much.

This week and every week. How are you today?

Nikki Mack (00:32)

I am good. It’s so good to be here. I’m hopeful for today. We’ve got it. I know it’s gonna work. and just, you know, what a fun testament of like we’re committed. We’re gonna get this to you, we’re gonna do what it takes. And couldn’t think of anyone to be doing it with that would be better than you. So yeah, happy to be here.

Tiffanie (00:50)

Thank you. Thank

you. I think you pointed out something very special there. It’s Sterilis. It’s a part of our core values, right? Do the right thing. We’ve got the grit and the passion for excellence and

the results focus. We are living and breathing those this week. I completely agree. gosh, Nikki. so fun fact, we both head out for offices soon. we’re both gonna be

Nikki Mack (01:15)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (01:15)

on the road again. And I was looking at the weather.

This morning with my fiance. Have you looked yet?

Nikki Mack (01:23)

I have it. Now I’m nervous. It’s share. Share with the class.

Tiffanie (01:24)

Yeah. So mm-hmm.

So just for everyone’s knowledge base, at the time of recording this, it is mid October. We’re like a week into October of twenty twenty six. And yesterday here in Phoenix, in my area of Phoenix was a hundred degrees. That was our high. Today’s

Nikki Mack (01:44)

Mm.

Tiffanie (01:44)

high is ninety nine. Next week it’s like high sixties and we’re gone.

Nikki Mack (01:52)

Okay, yeah, that tracks. Got it.

Tiffanie (01:55)

No, so last week when Nikki

was gone, or the week before last when Nikki was gone, we were both traveling that week and everywhere we went we had just missed the rain. Like it was trailing right behind us, including at home. So it was beautiful at home, it was raining, the weather was gorgeous, and we get back and it’s sunny and hot and we’ve been living sunny and hot now. And as soon as we leave, like legitimately I think Sunday, it starts cooling down. Yep.

Aaron said, he said, my gosh, it’s gonna be so pretty next week. I Yeah, and it’s literally the entire time that I’m gone. Seven days of beauty, seven days I’m gone. So I thought I’d share that with you today. I get you prepped, ready to go. It’s Thursday. So, you know, here we are. It’s gonna be great.

Nikki Mack (02:40)

Yeah.

It’s my mind for it. I love it. You know what? Well but I will say this. At least almost everywhere we go is beautiful and green. Everywhere’s

beautiful.

Tiffanie (02:50)

This is true.

Nikki Mack (02:51)

Walk that back. Everywhere’s beautiful. Just most places are also green. And as desert girlies, like I love to see it. So there’s a win.

Tiffanie (02:57)

Yeah, it’s so true. And we should

get some fall colors, which they’re not good, it might be beautiful here, but there’s no fall colors in Phoenix. So I love that. I love that.

Nikki Mack (03:05)

Absolutely. my god.

Tiffanie (03:08)

Well, more testaments to our core values, which actually, as you said that earlier, like our our testament to getting this done, I kind of I think that actually we spoke a little bit about what we were gonna talk about today, but I think that kind of ties into today’s statements as well and really talking about our core values. So

Today, Nikki, I’m picking your brain on team. And something it’s been a very recurring theme. and I think actually, now that I say it out loud, like I think a lot of practices right now are pushing for growth. It’s towards the end of the year and they’ve experienced some growth. For whatever reason, this year has been like a like a stale growth. It hasn’t been a lot at one time. It’s been kind of intermittent and a weird year for sure.

But practices are experiencing that growth. And within that, we hire new people, shift things shift and people shift, but we really start taking a look at the people that we have, the people that we need, et cetera. And today’s topic, we really wanted to talk about your team. Like, would you rehire everyone on your team? And I love this title or this topic that our marketing team gave to us so much because it’s like hard.

Core, right? Like it hit. It was like, wow, that’s like cut into the chase. Would you rehire everyone? So, Nikki, I think this is something that comes up for a lot of practices, at least in my consulting. And I think you’re seeing it. I know specifically a couple of practices you have that have onboarded new doctors and new hygienists and just this expansive growth. When it comes to looking at the actual team members, what are you helping practices work through? How are you walking them through that and really?

trying to decide on something like this, like would you hire this person again? How do you, how do you work that with them?

Nikki Mack (04:58)

So I think the first step is you have to take an honest look at the practice, yourself as a leader and kind of your expectations, right? Where are we like truly at? What’s changed this year, and what do I still want to change, right? You know, like what what goalposts are we still working towards and how has that translated with my team? Because here’s the thing at the end of the day, you hired everyone on your team for a reason, right?

Nobody, I think, wandered in off the street and was like, Can I stay for a bit? And you’re like, Yeah, sounds good, right? You know, we’ll teach you how to use Tentrics, it’s fine. but our teams do change, right? Our office changes, and we change as leaders and kind of our goals and things we’re looking for. So being able to say, like, okay, let me take a real honest look at where we’re at, where I’m trying to go, and how everyone kind of fits in with that right now, not from that personal relationship standpoint.

not from you know past experiences with them, but just how do they fit into my team and my structure because what do I need? a good example of that, I think a lot of times when we talk about org charts with teams, right? we love an org chart. But what do

Tiffanie (06:08)

I do.

Nikki Mack (06:08)

we usually tell them, let’s design an org chart for what your office needs, not for the people that you currently have in place. And then we figure out how they fit into those positions. Because we have to be honest about what we’re trying to build and what team structure gets us there.

And I think it’s that same kind of mentality, even if we have an org chart, if we’re evaluating our team, what do we really have? Right? Like what is in place and what are our goals?

Tiffanie (06:34)

Yeah, I love that. And

Nikki Mack (06:35)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (06:36)

within that like org chart and that structure and really looking at those goals, I something I notice is even just in the same position, no growth for the practice, a lot of times someone can just like get stale or stagnant, or maybe they were in a space that worked for a while and now that’s that space just isn’t working. Do you feel, Nikki, that once someone’s a bad seed, they’re always a bad seed?

do you feel like there’s opportunity for individual growth? I’ve seen all of it, and I think we can walk through so many scenarios, but like when you consult a practice and when on Dental A Team consults a practice for all of the listeners, we rely heavily on a lot of information that you provide to us. And so we’re the bird’s eye viewpoint. and we try to see everything from that high-level kind of looking in.

But we really do require so much data and input from you. So Nikki, with that, when you’re coming in like blind, we’ll call it, right? You’re just you’ve just got the information that you have. How are you helping a doctor to assess those people? And I’m like truly interested.

Nikki Mack (07:50)

Yeah. Okay, so this is possibly one of my fatal flaws. we’re full transparency, right? Here on Dental A Team. I absolutely believe people are you

Tiffanie (08:00)

Same.

Nikki Mack (08:00)

rehabilitate, right? Like I know it and sometimes look guys, sometimes I’ve tried way too long to my detriment. But what valuable experience to know when to tell you, like, guys, cut it. We’ve done what

Tiffanie (08:13)

It’s fair.

Nikki Mack (08:13)

we can.

but I do often think there’s room. And I know a few of my teams right now would be listening to this and being like, Yes, we had that same conversation. I was like, This person, we’ve done everything, there’s no hope. And I was Well, let’s just try one more thing, right? Now I’m

Tiffanie (08:28)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (08:28)

fresh, new set of eyes. Let’s be for sure that we’ve done everything. Because it’s completely fair as a leader. Sometimes we think we’ve done everything, and sometimes we’ve only responded out of frustration in the moment. And so I do think people can be

Saved, right? So to speak. but we have to be super intentional. And this is about really looking into okay, what are my concerns with this problem, with this person, excuse me? What are their opportunities? What are the consistent challenges? Is this something that’s coachable? Or is this something that is simply not a fit? Whether it’s skill set, personality, you know, something of that degree, if it truly doesn’t work for what I need from that role, then we have a different conversation. Because I think it goes.

In two places, depending on the position. Are they still a good fit for my team, but maybe in a different seat? Or is there not somewhere in this practice that is the appropriate seat for what we’re trying to do and where they’re at? But

Tiffanie (09:28)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (09:28)

ultimately, yes, I am gonna try to save you a hundred percent. I just want to be sure that I did everything I could and that we are confident if you are in the right seat and you’re the right person.

Tiffanie (09:39)

Personally and professionally, that’s me to my detriment. Yes,

Nikki Mack (09:41)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (09:45)

I think a lot of us in the dental field probably feel that way. Something I’m hearing that’s really special and important to pull out is the separation that you’re creating from the emotional standpoint to the black and white. Like, are they are they a good fit? And that’s personality wise.

and capabilities, but removing those emotional pieces. Because to your point of what you said, I think a lot of decisions we make in life in general are emotionally based decisions. Like we don’t go to Target, right, for just the things we need. I every time we walk into Target, the kids are like, what are are we here for? Like, did we get everything we need? And I every single time I say, listen, guys, Target doesn’t, I don’t always come knowing what I need from Target. Target tells me what I need.

And we walk around until I feel as though Target has spoken to me all that it can. And then we check out. Then it’s time. Then it’s time to

Nikki Mack (10:43)

Then it’s time to check out. Okay.

Tiffanie (10:45)

check out. And those are just those are emotionally, you know, we’re walking through the it’s always the kitchen stuff, right? And I’m like, you know, and my cart’s full. And sis is like, I don’t think we needed that. I’m like, it’s fine. Target said, but we’re making those decisions.

not just at Target, we’re also making them in the workplace, and maybe even more so in the workplace because the stress is higher. Like Target’s not stressing me out. It’s just getting me excited, right? But I’m still making these emotionally based decisions on if I do or don’t want something. And I think at the workplace it’s so much more stress evolved, right? They’re involved. There’s so much more stress to be had that we’re like, cut it, be done. Or I’m gonna

continue trying until I can’t try anymore. So I love that you determined those two pieces. Now, would you rehire everyone on your team is like that’s honestly it’s a little harsh, right? And I love it because I want to take that look. and something you mentioned too with the org chart. And then you also said like are they in the right seat? Are they right the right person? So does their personality fit our practice and then are they in the right place? Something that ties into what you said initially this morning when we started was

like

the core value. So I think it’s huge for people and for practice owners to understand how to separate those two things. And Nikki, I think you do a great job at anecdotes and allowing people to see like real life examples. How would you how would you help a doctor to determine like, is this an an emotional decision that I’m making, or can I see on paper black and white that this person does or doesn’t work for us?

Nikki Mack (12:27)

Yeah. I think it comes back to KPIs a little bit, right?

Tiffanie (12:31)

Mm.

Nikki Mack (12:31)

You know our things we love. because you have to decide if the outcome, whether that outcome is frustration, things not getting done, holes in the schedule, lack of follow up, whatever the outcome is that’s causing that concern, where is that coming from? Is it a KPI issue? Is it a training issue, or is it a personality issue, right? Like kind of a fit.

Because we talk a lot in

dentistry about how fit matters a ton, right? Patients need to find the right dentist for what they’re looking for. You need the right team for what you’re looking for. And I think it definitely matters with team and what role they fill. Because we’ll take, for example, a small office, right? We’ve you and I have both been there, right? I was the only girl up front running the show. So I did the phone calls, I did confirmation, I did billing. We’re a hundred years old, so we didn’t get to text patients to confirm.

Tiffanie (13:22)

Yeah,

fair.

Nikki Mack (13:23)

We were making

40 phone calls, right? you figure out how to do all of it and we make it work, right? And our office thrives and we grow and it’s amazing. And then we bring more people on. But sometimes people are doing certain duties just because they’ve fallen into that place, or that’s kind of where it is. But then as we grow and there’s a little bit more of dedication to tasks, I might still be with a task that actually I don’t love. And I can do it, but

It’s not what fills my cup, right? And it’s not what kind of gets me excited to come in every day. And that over time will impact our performance, right? Even if we’re good at it. Look, my billing ladies out there, Tiffanie and I both talked about this. My AR queens, the insurance, you know, 40 minute phone call, they’re gonna wait it out. Appreciate you, love you. That can’t be me long term. Can I do it? Yes. Is that what I want to do for 40 hours a week? my gosh, no. I need a patient. You know what I mean?

You can end up in these positions and that is where that output suffers. But is it because I don’t have the skills or is it because that’s just not where I thrive? And so I think that’s where you have to look at what’s causing this gap or miss with this employee and where does it come from? Because maybe I can train them. Maybe we can figure out how to utilize them in a different way. and what the office, what does that look like? Right? Because when we’re in different periods of growth, we have to

Take a step back just like we look at systems, look at our people. Where what seat are they in? And is that the right seat for what we need and where we want to go?

Tiffanie (14:56)

Yeah.

So you’re taking out the emotions by just simply looking at black and white data. I love that you brought in the KPIs. because I think that’s multifaceted too of if we’re not if we’re not reaching the KPIs and that’s the frustration. So maybe the schedule’s not full, like you said, or whatever the KPI is that they’re not hitting, then you can take a step back and we’re really like removing the person. Cause you think that’s what happens, right? Is that we get attached to Nikki.

Right. And I love Nikki. And I’m like, okay, but I don’t want to lose Nikki. Or maybe Nikki just frustrated the heck out of me today. And I I’m like, get out of here. But the reality is, is Nikki reaching the goals or not? And so what you’re saying, I’m like visualizing this and I love it because I can see, okay, this KPI is not being hit. And if that’s the frustration, not the personality.

Right. If that’s the frustration, then we can take a step back and say, cool, what about that isn’t like what’s what’s missing? So then we can say, do they know how to do it? Right. Like, do they know how to do it? Do they want to do it? And do they have the space for it? Because something you said there is huge that I think we miss is that want. And then caveat here, because I worked in this office where we just like

Decided, I don’t want to do that one anymore. So we moved it to somebody else and we just like shifted responsibilities and roles all the time. A role has its responsibilities. And 90% of it you’re gonna love. There might be a 10% that’s like, this is a mundane task that I hate doing. You just gotta bust through it, right? That’s that book, eat that frog. Okay, just do it, just get it done. But if at the core this person doesn’t want this job.

That’s what you’re saying. And that might not be a would you rehire this team member to your point? It might be, is there a different role that might suit them better? I love that. So then

Nikki Mack (16:57)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (16:57)

it takes out the person. Now the person, though, I think would be more apt to the rehire question. Maybe not.

Nikki Mack (17:04)

Yes.

Tiffanie (17:05)

I think they’re both fair. But I think let’s pivot. Because you might think, would I have rehired this person just because they’re not accomplishing the KPIs and the goals? And then you’re like,

missing this great human. Now what if it’s like her personality is driving me nuts? You know, and I think Nikki to your point of the billing, like I my personality, if you put me in a billing seat, you’re gonna hate me because I’m really

Nikki Mack (17:31)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (17:32)

cranky. Like Aaron even knows he’s like, I can tell when you’re just like in like go mode, like you’ve been on calls all day because I come out like, okay, what else are we gonna do? What can we solve? What do I how do I put the dishes away? Like I’m

Nikki Mack (17:43)

Right.

Tiffanie (17:44)

just like

Crazy, right? And he’s like, yeah, like you gotta like chill and calm down. So putting me in that position, my personality does change. So walk me through some ideas there. Like what are you what are you seeing out in the field? And how

do you help

Nikki Mack (18:00)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (18:01)

determine the person?

Nikki Mack (18:03)

So, and I think this goes to some of the like behavior leadership like key components that we talk about a lot with our clients. This is where knowing your team comes into play. This is where having those check-ins, right, those one-on-ones and understanding what’s going on with them, how their position is going, but also how they’re doing. Because you’re totally right, the dental office is busy, right? We talk about this all the time. Sometimes even a slow day is still a crazy day, no matter what we do.

And we want to control that chaos as much as possible, but it is still very much go, go, go. So as a leader, being able to step back and know where your team is and check in with them, those are those things that are going to allow you to A, notice shifts, right? Like, gosh, Tiff is like cranky every day this week, right? what’s going on? How do I support that? And having a relationship with your team too, where we’re in that level of trust and vulnerability that they can come to you.

Right. And have those conversations on both ends. So there’s more than just sitting down today and saying, I’m gonna evaluate my team. We have to have some strategies and practices in place that allow you to move on that like very quickly. Now, if you aren’t already doing that, that’s okay because hi, hello, welcome to the Dental A Team Podcast, and we talk about would you rehire your team? This is where we start. Let’s evaluate our team, let’s evaluate where we’re at and get that information, have those conversations, right?

and be able to understand where people fit because at the end of the day, if your team understands where you’re going and why, then it’s a lot easier for them to understand how they fit into that. And then sometimes team members come to their realizations themselves. I have a crazy story I’m gonna share with you. And I promise it’s true. I would swear this, you know, in a court of law. It sounds fake, but it’s not. a doctor that I used to work with years ago, we were hyper focused on this. Like

Our team growth, our team direction, our mission values, everything was top of like the commitment order. And the team was super excited, super bought in. We were all growing together. He had a team member that he had been a little bit, you know, concerned about. Amazing person, great personality, great team player. Just we weren’t sure if she fit where we were going, right? That team member actually came to him and said, Doc, I love this office and I love that I’ve been a part of your team.

I’m not the right fit for where we’re going. Like I can recognize that this is not where I where I belong, right? And she removed herself from the situation. But I’ll tell you what, because she had such a strong relationship, she was amazing. Like we were sad to see her go. She found the replacement. She knew someone that was looking for a new office. She knew that person’s personality and she was able to bring them on.

train them, get them ready to go, and then doc knew someone that needed an assistant that was great too. So it worked out amazing. Yeah. Is that gonna be the case every time? No guys. Hi. I realize that.

Tiffanie (21:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki Mack (21:06)

But when you build those foundations, when you have that relationship, these things are in fact possible. We can have that open line of communication and understanding and your team knows where we’re going and they’re fully bought in and support it.

Tiffanie (21:21)

I love that story. Ideal. So it almost

yeah, it almost sounds like it’s less of a like would you rehire this team question? And which is the question, that’s fine. But it’s more of a have I done everything to support my team and lead and guide them so that I can even see if I would rehire this person or not. So we have to make sure we’re doing our due diligence of pouring into the people.

And allowing the space for them to see if they even like it here or not, and then asking that question.

Nikki Mack (21:58)

Yeah. And then I think we haven’t gotten to this part yet, but also at the end of everything, it’s okay to say no. Would I rehire this person? No. For whatever reason. If they just don’t fit right with what we’re doing, if maybe like you said, the skill set’s not there, the want isn’t there, if they’re not the right fit, guys, it’s absolutely okay to acknowledge that and then figure out what comes next and how do we support the team. Because at the end of the day, if it is the wrong fit,

It’s not a win for either of you. Not the employee, not you, not your team, not your patients.

Tiffanie (22:32)

I love that. I actually have had myself as a manager, I’ve had that where I’ve poured into this assistant. I felt like she was doing she was good when she was good. And she was really bad when she was bad. And I remember having to make that decision. And it was one of the hardest fires I’ve ever done in my life because I really wanted so much more for her, personally and professionally. I just saw this life that she could create and I think

As a leader, that’s something that we can all do really well, is we can see the the person. And then, like we said earlier, like to our detriment, sometimes we will overlook things. And I did for a little while, not even overlooked. I feel like I excused things and like tried to coach and

Nikki Mack (23:18)

Mm-hmm.

Tiffanie (23:18)

tried to help. and at the end of it all, it was.

Pretty mutual, like you said. She kind of she knew it was coming. She knew she wasn’t the best fit. She knew she could do better. But the team when I let her go, the team that felt so supported and so loved and so seen, because they had been at the end of the day, the ones that were suffering from just not the right person. Like, and she’s not a bad human. I I she’s a great person.

She

just wasn’t the right fit for our practice at the time that we were at. And once that space was like alleviated and the team felt truly heard and seen, the whole team rose up to the occasion. They helped hire the next person. They helped train. They helped foreign to that person because they saw not only what could be like they didn’t only see what could be wrong, what could be the worst, right? But they saw we can all.

pour into someone like Tiff did and build someone. And when it’s right, it’s right. And when it’s wrong, we all have a, we all have a say in that now. So to your point, like it totally changed, I feel like, the values that the team saw and the way everyone else decided to show up thereafter. And it was after one on ones, we did, you know, core value assessments. These are your action items, like core value assessments are is this person

meeting our core values, is it a knowledge gap? Like do they need to know more about their position? Do they want their position? And on a on a people level, how do they show up for the team? and not just for themselves or just for the doctor or just for the leadership?

Nikki Mack (25:01)

Will you hear you?

Tiffanie (25:02)

Like how are they treating the rest of their team? And really doing like you said, those one-on-ones and building that relationship made a massive difference. Cause even this gal when she had to walk into my office, we already had our relationship built.

Nikki Mack (25:15)

Yeah.

Tiffanie (25:15)

And so

the conversation was honestly easy. It was not an it was a hard task and it was hard as a human, but the conversation was very easy.

Nikki Mack (25:28)

Yeah. Ultimately at the end of the day, I feel like when we’re doing our job as leaders, whether a conversation is good, bad, or in the middle, it should never be a surprise to the employee we’re having it with. Because we’ve had those conversations, we’ve had support and correction in place where necessary. And then they know where it’s headed, right? Because they have ownership over their ability as well. So I think you brought up such a great point. Your team will rise up, man.

Like it’s hard to lose a good person, but when we’re making it the decision for the right reasons, your team may have been I’m not gonna say suffering, because it’s not always suffering, but adjusting, right? Or

Tiffanie (26:13)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (26:14)

accounting for it in different ways. So then when you make that realization, make that change where needed, your team will usually rise up because now they’ve see the other side as well.

And the value in that. So it that it’s tough. I know it’s hard to hire, right? We’re stressed about losing people. And that’s part of why I’m a big fan of doing everything we can, knowing that I’ve checked every box possible to help lift them up. But if your answer is no, then what are we going to do about it? Right. And that’s something that we work through. Because you know what? No office is the same, right? No situation

Tiffanie (26:49)

Yeah.

Nikki Mack (26:49)

is the same. And so we ask a lot of different questions from that point too.

But we have to be honest with ourselves to kind of get that yes or no, right? Would I rehire? Would I keep them where they’re at? And just being truthful and not fully emotionally driven with that.

Tiffanie (27:06)

Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. Amazing. Thank you, Nikki. Action items, I’m gonna pull for everyone based on Nikki’s conversations here. And please remember like this is this is coaching, this is real life coaching. This is what Nikki, all of our consultants do with our practices when these things come up. So foundational, make sure you’ve got your core values. You’ve got something that leads and guides your team on how to show up. So they know how to show up, they know how to be a positive member of your team and your culture is driven by your core values.

You’ve got KPI measurements. That’s something that Nikki mentioned. Like, can they do their job? Are they doing their job? And then evaluate. Do they understand the job that you’ve asked them to do? Do they want that job? Do they have the capacity to do it? Are they in the right seat? And do those one-on-ones, you guys, whether it’s monthly, we love monthly, every other month, quarterly, like some of my practices are are larger. So they’re doing hygiene one month, dental assistance one month.

front office one month and they’re rotating those quarterly so every department’s getting hit quarterly. So reach out to us. Nikki, thank you so much for today. This was incredible. I think there’s a ton of value in here and I appreciate you so much. You guys, if you want help with this, you need any templates, you’re ready to talk to us to figure out how can we help support you in your roles and with your team, please reach out. [email protected]. We are always here to help you and we love what we do.

Drop us a five-star review below. Let us know how valuable this was and anything else that you feel could be added. People do read through those reviews. So it’s great for you to get your comments in there as well. And as always, we will catch you next time. Thanks so much.

Nikki Mack (28:46)

Peace.